DETROIT | Ren Cen | potential redevelopment

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The current hotel is a dump, and has very low rates. So maybe the hotel use is safe, but not that operator & brand. That tower will need a full redevelopment. And it's enormous, something like 1,300 rooms. Very hard to fill when there isn't a special event.

I'd bet a hotel use would be combined with residential, which is likely a safer long-term play. Do a luxury 400-room hotel, and convert the rest to high end rentals.

I'm not sure that the shape of the building is conducive to residential, but I'll leave that to the architects to discuss. I do have a hard time believing that Marriott is ready to walk away from that property. Marriott just upgraded all of the rooms in the Westin Book Cadillac. Marriott also just signed on to bring the first JW Marriott to Metro Detroit at the former Joe Louis Arena site, which is just a a stone's throw from the RenCen. They are by far the most bullish hotel chain on downtown Detroit, so it would be a big surprise to me if they pulled out of this property.

I think what is most likely to happen is the demolish most of the office towers and then build residential towers in their place. They'll also try to restore some of the street grid and reconnect it to the rest of downtown. The redevelopment of that site will center on the hotel tower. They'll also probably try to develop an urban destination center with retail, restaurants, and probably a grocery store. Probably something like a small scale Deutsche Bank Center (formerly the TimeWarner Center).

[The North One]

lol made an entire thread to discuss delusional fan-fiction.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

lol made an entire thread to discuss delusional fan-fiction.

Reputable local newspapers, based on their sources, are reporting that possible demolition of some of the complex is in fact on the table for the Ren Cen's next stage of life.

That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion (duh), but it's also hardly "delusional fan-fiction".

Given the complex's iconic status, folks at SSP are going to talk about it.

Better for it to be in a separate thread than have it clutter up the Hudson Tower thread.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Crawford

If you're in LA, it has more or less the same interior feel as the Westin Bonaventure, but supersized. A 1970's vision of the future. Quite interesting but also weird.

Yes, and I love the Bonaventure! The Winter Garden and overall size/scale seem like significant differences between the Ren Cen and the Bonaventure, though. In general, I love 50s-70s futurism.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Reputable local newspapers, based on their sources, are reporting that possible demolition of some of the complex is in fact on the table for the Ren Cen's next stage of life.

That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion (duh), but it's also hardly "delusional fan-fiction".

Folks at SSP are going to talk about it.

Better for it to be in a separate thread than have it clutter up the Hudson Tower thread.

The local papers are regurgitating the same clickbait they've done for months because it gets attention. There's not any new information.

The article is paywalled but from what I could gather, a local architecture firm did some analysis about demolition. Means absolutely nothing.

It is extremely delusional for anybody to think there's gonna be any tower demolition here in our lifetimes. Nobody is paying for that, which I explained multiple times. But I guess a few folks really have nothing better to do.

There's no proposal here, so this clearly doesn't deserve a thread in this area. More appropriate for the skybar.

[Steely Dan]

I'm so confused.

- A sourced report from a newspaper with a 193 year record of quality journalism.

OR

- Some guy on the internet who didn't even read the article yelling about how it's all just a bunch of bullshit.



I just don't know which viewpoint to put more stock in

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I'm so confused.

- A sourced report from a newspaper with a 193 year record of quality journalism.

So you read the article beyond the clickbait title? Who even is the source? Is there even anything besides opinion and speculation? Did Mary Barra make an announcement?

OR

- Some guy on the internet who didn't even read the article yelling about how it's all just a bunch of bullshit.



I just don't know which viewpoint to put more stock in????????

I mean, that's exactly what all of you are too lmao. Internet randoms making things up.

I don't really care what you put stock into. But there's this thing called critical thinking, you believe any headline just because it's from a newspaper? Detroit Freep is hardly even that reputable. Not like it's Associated Press or something.

I mean whatever, this whole thing has just reached a level of stupidity that's just kinda baffling.

[animatedmartian]

Even the CEO of the company that owns the building didn't outright deny demolition when she easily could have. There's nothing else that would explicitly prevent a demolition.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

So you read the article beyond the clickbait title?

Yes. Many paywalls are pretty easy to get around if you know where to look.

Originally Posted by The North One

Who even is the source?

People inside the ongoing negotiations of what to do with the Ren Cen who spoke to the freep on condition on anonymity. From their info, it's quite clear that partial demolition is in fact one if the options being discussed at a high level. It's not just "delusional fan fiction" at this point.

Hence the thread to discuss this news.

Originally Posted by The North One

Did Mary Barra make an announcement?

No.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Even the CEO of the company that owns the building didn't outright deny demolition when she easily could have. There's nothing else that would explicitly prevent a demolition.

Not this again. Reading into her PR speak non-answer she gave to avoid an off topic question at a random event.

However they have explicitly stated they're finding use for the buildings and working with Bedrock to do possible renovations many times. But that doesn't count?

Until somebody with real means and control of any of this announced something about demolition, it's nothing but speculation AKA fantasy.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

People inside the ongoing negotiations of what to do with the Ren Cen who spoke to the freep on condition on anonymity. From their info, it's quite clear that partial demolition is in fact one if the options being discussed at a high level. It's not just "delusional fan fiction" at this point.

Hence the thread to discuss this news.

So no names, just anonymous hearsay from a random person who maybe heard some spit-balling ideas. And they used that to re-post the same narrative about possible demolition we've heard many times. Okay then.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Okay then.

Still taking the Freep's word over yours on this.

Hence the dedicated thread to discuss it.

But given that this is in fact not a proposal for a new skyscraper, the thread probably fits better in the "general development" sub-forum, so here it is now.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by The North One

So no names, just anonymous hearsay from a random person who maybe heard some spit-balling ideas. And they used that to re-post the same narrative about possible demolition we've heard many times. Okay then.

You're being silly. The Detroit Free Press is the most prominent newspaper in Michigan. They didn't publish that just to annoy you lol.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by The North One

Not this again. Reading into her PR speak non-answer she gave to avoid an off topic question at a random event.

However they have explicitly stated they're finding use for the buildings and working with Bedrock to do possible renovations many times. But that doesn't count?

Until somebody with real means and control of any of this announced something about demolition, it's nothing but speculation AKA fantasy.

But why give a non-answer when it's totally unnecessary? Just say there's no plans to do any demolition.

[edale]

Originally Posted by The North One

It is extremely delusional for anybody to think there's gonna be any tower demolition here in our lifetimes. Nobody is paying for that, which I explained multiple times. But I guess a few folks really have nothing better to do.

Why is it so hard to believe a tower or more of the complex could be demolished? Skyscraper demolition happens routinely, even for buildings that don't have structural issues. Just two years ago, Cincinnati tore down the Millennium Hotel complex downtown, which consisted of 32 story and ~20 story towers. Nothing structurally wrong with it, but the operator of the hotel would not invest in the property or commit to upgrades, so the city paid a developer to buy the property on behalf of the county government, and then it was demolished. The plan was for a new county-developed hotel to rise on the site, but those plans have shifted and now it's going to be some lame plaza/park, and a new hotel will supposedly be built on a surface parking lot a block away. It's a bizarre situation, and I think it reeks of corruption, but I bring it up to say that skyscraper demolition is not unheard of, and it seems entirely plausible that one or more of the Ren Cen towers could be torn down if there are no office users to fill the space and residential conversion isn't feasible.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But why give a non-answer when it's totally unnecessary? Just say there's no plans to do any demolition.

That's basically what she did, she reiterated their plans with Bedrock. But also they know demolition would be a horrible outcome. They can more easily get some public assistance for renovations if the threat of demolition is there. It benefits them. Also it's pretty standard for those in power to avoid loaded questions from the media that later bite them in the ass. She's obviously very PR trained.

Originally Posted by edale

Why is it so hard to believe a tower or more of the complex could be demolished?

Because this is one of the largest office complexes on earth and it would probably be the most expensive controlled demolition in US history with no profit incentive to do so. Everything is interconnected so I doubt you could just easily destroy one or two towers, and what would even be the point of partial demolition? There is nothing critically wrong with the office space here and it's only had high vacancy for a very short time while the rest of downtown has low office vacancy. The most valid complaint is the lobby is a little confusing. Would be way cheaper to rework the layout than destroy any tower.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But why give a non-answer when it's totally unnecessary? Just say there's no plans to do any demolition.

Also, General Motors has not refuted any of the recent reporting that they are leaning towards demolition.

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Because this is one of the largest office complexes on earth and it would probably be the most expensive controlled demolition in US history with no profit incentive to do so. Everything is interconnected so I doubt you could just easily destroy one or two towers, and what would even be the point of partial demolition? There is nothing critically wrong with the office space here and it's only had high vacancy for a very short time while the rest of downtown has low office vacancy. The most valid complaint is the lobby is a little confusing. Would be way cheaper to rework the layout than destroy any tower.

Uh, have you been to Detroit? Let's not act like Detroit doesn't have a recent-ish history of tearing down some of the largest buildings of their kind on earth like...


https://www.detroitnews.com/

and...


https://www.mackinac.org/

And for the record, I used to work in one of the buildings they want to likely tear down in RenCen and it'd be a shame but I'm not surprised.

[Rizzo]

The Rencen offers modern adaptable space pre-covid. But the office market today has shifted from stark office complexes to mixed use developments catered toward a hospitality rich workplace. They won’t find valuable tenants to fill it.

a recen conversion would need to be part of some ridiculously monumental revitalization plan for residential in the parking lots and residential in the towers to attract commercial tenants at the base like a grocery store and basic services for residents. Can also have a massive gym and more expensive amenities than other residential buildings

I acknowledge that converting a 1970’s office building into residential is extremely challenging but it has happened.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by ColDayMan

Uh, have you been to Detroit? Let's not act like Detroit doesn't have a recent-ish history of tearing down some of the largest buildings of their kind on earth like...


And for the record, I used to work in one of the buildings they want to likely tear down in RenCen and it'd be a shame but I'm not surprised.

First of all, Hudsons is nowhere near as large as the Ren Cen. Second of all it sat totally abandoned for 15 years before it was demolished. Third of all there was no possible use case for the building. It was totally obsolete. Detroit has had tons of giant abandoned sites that sat vacant for decades because it was too expensive to demolish. The Statler comparison is an absolute joke.

Get back me to when it's been 20 years and the complex is fully abandoned and deteriorating.