PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

This is great insight. If PennDot cared about Philly, they'd expand the L all the way down 95 to like Oregon or Snyder in the median as they reconstruct the whole thing.

The El is a very poor candidate for branching. Ridership is extremely high and consistent throughout most of the line. Adding a branch to the MFL would only serve to either halve headways to Frankford (because now half of the eastbound trains would need to go to Oregon), or serve to further congest a line that, prior to COVID, was running at peak capacity during peak hours.

The original Delaware Avenue Branch of the MFL was an afterthought to tide the city over until the Frankford Elevated was built.

If you want service down I-95, the best way to do it is what Taylor identified in the 1920s: a new E/W trunk through Center City.

More realistically, if PennDOT cared about Philadelphia or about rail in general, they'd've realigned the 15/G1 to run beneath I-95 on its own dedicated ROW between the end of Girard Avenue and where Richmond veers out from under I-95.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

I think both fare evasion and dirty stations contribute to Septa being viewed negatively. New fare gates and very clean stations/trains would drastically change the publics view of Septa for all riders of septa. No one likes dirty trains or stations.

I have to be honest, the hype over "dirty" stations has never matched reality in my book. The subway stations are cleaned daily and Ive seen the cleaners on site in the middle of the day sweeping up trash. Obviously if someone creates a mess it will be visible for some length of time, but I have not found subway stations to be perpetually dirty and unmaintained.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

That is not what I am saying. I agree crime is down, but we need to get more middle and upper income city residents using septa vs just driving or using Uber. Most of my friends and family refuse to use septa (el/bsl) and would rather pay $10 for an Uber ride. They will, however, use public transportation in every other major city in the US, that’s a huge problem. Again these are residents of Philadelphia not some suburbanite who comes into the city once a month or something.

thats fine, I dont see you offering a solution. As I said, there are people who say philadelphia as a whole is dangerous and wont set foot in it. Some feel that way only about certain areas or about septa, if not the city as a whole. There is no easy answer- if SEPTA puts out statistics and PRs outlining crime is decreasing and people "feel" that its not true or not safe enough I dont know how SEPTA can convince those people to ride. The majority of people who are scared of SEPTA barely ride it and have likely never experienced any notable crime on the system. SEPTA needs more riders period- Im not sure that we just need to focus on upper income people who are scared to ride.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by cardeza

I have to be honest, the hype over "dirty" stations has never matched reality in my book. The subway stations are cleaned daily and Ive seen the cleaners on site in the middle of the day sweeping up trash. Obviously if someone creates a mess it will be visible for some length of time, but I have not found subway stations to be perpetually dirty and unmaintained.

Agreed. I think it's a much more pressing issue to get the new fare gates in place. The entire system would be upgraded simply by limiting access to non-payers.

The comedy is that the people who get into the system for free are the ones who treat it like a toilet.

[mcgrath618]

IMO the cars themselves are the dirtiest thing on the MFL. It's hard to keep them clean for the same reasons that it's hard to keep a 30 year old car clean; the plastic fades and accumulates damage with time. Broken window theory means that if the cars look beaten up, they'll accumulate more trash and damage.

The only truly "filthy" stations on the MFL are 34th, 8th, 2nd, and Spring Garden.

[TonyTone]

Lmao, did we skip over the fact that I said express trains will be rerouted to the BSL spur during the City Hall Renovations?

[Radio5]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The El is a very poor candidate for branching. Ridership is extremely high and consistent throughout most of the line. Adding a branch to the MFL would only serve to either halve headways to Frankford (because now half of the eastbound trains would need to go to Oregon), or serve to further congest a line that, prior to COVID, was running at peak capacity during peak hours.

The original Delaware Avenue Branch of the MFL was an afterthought to tide the city over until the Frankford Elevated was built.

If you want service down I-95, the best way to do it is what Taylor identified in the 1920s: a new E/W trunk through Center City.

More realistically, if PennDOT cared about Philadelphia or about rail in general, they'd've realigned the 15/G1 to run beneath I-95 on its own dedicated ROW between the end of Girard Avenue and where Richmond veers out from under I-95.

Are there images of this somewhere? Couldn't find it.

[El Duderino]

A look at two million-dollar condos - one in Brewerytown and one in Queen Village, both 3-bed spots in new construction buildings. Not sure I'd want to drop over six grand a month on either spot...interesting seeing the Brewerytown listing at $86/sqft more than the Queen Village one.

A Milli in Philly: A Comparison
https://jackphillyre.substack.com/p/...y-a-comparison
July 8, 2024

[Broadcastthatboom]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

A look at two million-dollar condos - one in Brewerytown and one in Queen Village, both 3-bed spots in new construction buildings. Not sure I'd want to drop over six grand a month on either spot...interesting seeing the Brewerytown listing at $86/sqft more than the Queen Village one.

A Milli in Philly: A Comparison
https://jackphillyre.substack.com/p/...y-a-comparison
July 8, 2024

Imaging paying $1mil for something so fugly with that Brewerytown, my god! At least the QV has some charm.

[Radio5]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

A look at two million-dollar condos - one in Brewerytown and one in Queen Village, both 3-bed spots in new construction buildings. Not sure I'd want to drop over six grand a month on either spot...interesting seeing the Brewerytown listing at $86/sqft more than the Queen Village one.

A Milli in Philly: A Comparison
https://jackphillyre.substack.com/p/...y-a-comparison
July 8, 2024

Queen village makes some sense, but brewerytown for over a million is diabolical

[mja]

Was at a family function in the burbs a couple of months ago. Extended family was in disbelief when told that my two middle schoolers got to school every day using Septa on their own. Mind you, they're just hopping on the 48 down to Center City and back. It's a 10-15 minute ride.

My aunt literally didn't believe it. Went and quietly asked the kids themselves if it were true. They just looked at her puzzled by the question before confirming it with raised eyebrows.

Her son is attending Temple in the fall but they're freaked out by it. When told that my 20 year old went and visited friends all the time at Temple using Septa, including the MFL & subway, their brains exploded.

[Skintreesnail]

Some news on broad street improvements.
https://whyy.org/articles/philadelph...-broad-street/

https://www.inquirer.com/arts/inq2/a...-20240709.html

[Philly Fan]

^^^Also in The Inquirer:

A newer, greener Avenue of the Arts is in the works
Starting with Broad Street in 2026, a decadelong $100-million project is expected to be set in motion

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by cardeza

thats fine, I dont see you offering a solution.

Popular solution: Work with schools and large employers to include passes with tuition/employment.

Unpopular solution: Make driving less convenient.

Obvious solution that won't happen: Fix the board.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Popular solution: Work with schools and large employers to include passes with tuition/employment.

Unpopular solution: Make driving less convenient.

Obvious solution that won't happen: Fix the board.

SEPTA already has key advantage which does the first option already. Penn, Drexel, Wawa and the City are already in the program where passes are given to employees at no charge. There are likely more participating companies by now.

Im all for changing the board, but dont see how that automatically attracts the precious upper income city dwelling riders you want to see. If people refuse to believe that something is safe, facts don't matter to them.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by cardeza

thats fine, I dont see you offering a solution. As I said, there are people who say philadelphia as a whole is dangerous and wont set foot in it. Some feel that way only about certain areas or about septa, if not the city as a whole. There is no easy answer- if SEPTA puts out statistics and PRs outlining crime is decreasing and people "feel" that its not true or not safe enough I dont know how SEPTA can convince those people to ride. The majority of people who are scared of SEPTA barely ride it and have likely never experienced any notable crime on the system. SEPTA needs more riders period- Im not sure that we just need to focus on upper income people who are scared to ride.

I think SEPTA needs to focus on increasing frequencies and, where it has ownership, building out transit-oriented developments. There will always be a contingent of people who are too scared to ride any form of public transit, let alone SEPTA - I've even seen people scared to ride the Regional Rail. The far larger segment of the population SEPTA should be chasing are the riders who are open to taking transit, but whose schedules don't align with the Authority's. For example, a Phillies fan who lives in Manayunk will have no issue taking the Regional Rail and BSL to get to the 6:40 game at the Bank, but they'll have trouble getting home if the game goes into extras or if that fan wants a post-game drink. My in-laws would be even worse off since they live in Chestnut Hill.

Additionally, SEPTA has some huge parking lots that could work much better as TOD. Along my R6 Manayunk/Norristown Line, portions of the massive lots at Wissahickon and Ivy Ridge would certainly generate more recurring revenue as TOD than as a collection of parking spaces. The city should upzone all lots adjacent to high-capacity transit, and it would be helpful if Amtrak could also promote TOD at the stations and lots it owns.