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  #9041  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Did she remove 2 lanes from the freeways crossing Montréal?

Did she decrease the speed limit on Montréal freeways down to 50 km/h?

Did she close the expressway bordering the St Lawrence River and turn it into a pedestrian alley?

Did she subsidize and install an anti-capitalist, Green extremist association supposedly about "climate change" but in fact organizing parties and far-left events (such as "how to violate the law and resist authorities?") in the most historical town hall of Montréal?

Did she enforce 30 km/h speed limit on most side streets in Montréal?

Did she quadruple parking fees in Montréal, end free parking in August, and buy a fleet of municipal cars equipped with cameras to distribute a record number of fines to car drivers who exceed their parking time?

If the answer is NO to most of these questions, then she wouldn't quality as NFP in France (the far-left alliance that won the elections yesterday).
Valerie Plante still represents a city where huge swathes look like this or this, so even in transportation jurisdictions that the City touches, she can only push her vision so far.
     
     
  #9042  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:14 PM
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Even Valérie Plante is likely too far left for the Montreal of today, she'd unlikely to get reelected. Does the clear anti-incumbent trend we see nowadays in Quebec, Canada, Britain, the USA and France apply to Paris municipal politics too? I'd guess it does...?
https://www.ladepeche.fr/2024/03/24/muni...-anne-hidalgo-loin-derriere-11846531.php
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  #9043  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:19 PM
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Thanks. I'm so NOT surprised!
     
     
  #9044  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:20 PM
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Valerie Plante still represents a city where huge swathes look like this or this, so even in transportation jurisdictions that the City touches, she can only push her vision so far.
Some of the most massive traffic impediments in the Montreal area at the moment are due to the MTQ's ("QDOT", for you guys) decisions and jobsites, so not Plante's fault.
     
     
  #9045  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:35 PM
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Does the clear anti-incumbent trend we see nowadays in Quebec, Canada, Britain, the USA and France apply to Paris municipal politics too? I'd guess it does...?
Unfortunately the situation in Paris in hopeless, because unlike all other Western metropolises Paris has not been merged with its suburbs. So it's as if NYC was still limited to Manhattan. Only the people rich enough or poor enough to live inside the 1860 borders of the City of Paris can vote for the mayor of Paris, which results in an electorate that is completely fucked up from a social point of view, with either the very rich voting for the right, or the poor and bobo types (such as those French guys in Montréal) voting for the left (considered "left" here, but which would be considered "far-left" in North America).

To add to this problem, since 1982 the municipal elections in Paris have been run in the same way as US presidential elections. We do not elect the mayor of Paris, much as Americans do not elect the president. We elect "electors" (called "conseillers de Paris" here) in each arrondissement. Each arrondissement sends its "electors" to the city council, where they elect the mayor, much as each US state sends electors to the electoral college who then elect the president.

As a result, much as in the US, it doesn't matter who wins the most votes city-wide. What matters are the swing-arrondissements. Due to the fucked up social makeup of the City of Paris's electorate, western arrondissements are predominantly bourgeois and always send right-wing councilors to the city council, whereas eastern arrondissements are predominantly inhabited by bobo types and ethnic minorities living in social housing who always send left-wing councilors to the city council.

If you're a left-wing voter in the western arrondissements, your vote counts for nothing, just like being a Democrat in Texas. If you're a right-wing voter in the Eastern arrondissements, your vote counts for nothing, just like being a Republican in California.

In practice, only 2 swing-arrondissements get to decide the mayor of Paris: the 12th and the 14th arrondissements, where left-wing and right-wing forces used to be balanced, with both bourgeois and bobo/subsidized populations, but in the past 23 years of the left in power, they have built lots of social housing in these two arrondissements, and bobo types have now become almost single-issue voters (bicycles, bicycles, bicycles!!), so it's almost impossible for the right-wing opposition to win these two swing-arrondissements nowadays, and therefore topple Anne Hidalgo and her majority.

The Macron deputies in the National Assembly had FINALLY understood that (after spectacularly crashing in the 2020 municipal election), and they planned to reform the voting law and make the municipal election in Paris similar to the rest of France, i.e. one man one vote, no more "electoral college" and all that nonsense. Anne Hidalgo was quite afraid of that change, as she would suddenly have had to try and woo the Western arrondissements (which she can happily ignore in the current system), but the president decided to disband the National Assembly, and the rest is history as they say... All bills examined in the Parliament have become moot, including the one reforming the voting law in Paris, and there won't be any majority in the new National Assembly to vote such a law.

There will also not be any majority in Parliament to merge the city with its suburbs (to elect a mayor of Greater Paris, which would rebalance the election, as suburban voters are more middle-class). So Anne Hidalgo is almost assured of being reelected (either her, or the female successor that she's currently grooming to succeed her).

One hope I had was that a far-right government would disband the Paris city council and establish direct authority by the French State over the city (as existed before 1977), a threat that Macron sometimes made but never had the guts to implement, as a typical wishy-washy centrist that he is, but with last night's election results there won't be a far-right government in France, so no "tutelle de l'Etat" as it's called in French, since there will probably be no majority in the new National Assembly to trigger such a "tutelle".

We're stuck. More and more Parisians are fleeing the city and moving to the suburbs. The City of Paris is currently losing inhabitants (and classrooms in city schools) at a record rate.
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  #9046  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:36 PM
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Based on my admittedly superficial impressions, Anne Hidalgo seems a lot more universally hated than Valérie Plante.

Plante is very criticized but she still has some support out there, whereas it's rare to hear any support for Hidalgo, it seems.
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  #9047  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:41 PM
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All bills examined in the Parliament have become moot, including the one reforming the voting law in Paris, and there won't be any majority in the new National Assembly to vote such a law.
Why not? If the centrists and the Right both want to do something like that, they'll have the votes (­>50%) for it, no?
     
     
  #9048  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Valerie Plante still represents a city where huge swathes look like this or this, so even in transportation jurisdictions that the City touches, she can only push her vision so far.
Yeah. That's the great advantage of Canadian cities (and most other cities in the Western world). You've merged (partly or fully) the city center with the suburbs. In France, due to extreme conservatism, we've not merged the city centers with the suburbs anywhere, therefore our cities are extremely small municipalities which cover only city centers, and whose electorate is completely fucked up (with a predominance of bobo types), not representative of the broad population. The middle classes who live in the suburbs cannot vote for the mayor of the city where they work, shop, use public transportation and freeways, etc.

Unfortunately 99% of the French political class is completely oblivious to this problem.
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  #9049  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Absolutely no chance! She would have a chance if there was a city-wide municipal election (which is what these polls reflect). She's absolutely no chance with the current voting law, as she would need to win the 12th and 14th arrondissements, which is almost impossible. For her to win these two arrondissements would be as much a miracle as a Democrat winning Texas and South Carolina.
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  #9050  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 2:53 PM
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Yeah. That's the great advantage of Canadian cities (and most other cities in the Western world). You've merged (partly or fully) the city center with the suburbs. In France, due to extreme conservatism, we've not merged the city centers with the suburbs anywhere, therefore our cities are extremely small municipalities which cover only city centers, and whose electorate is completely fucked up (with a predominance of bobo types), not representative of the broad population. The middle classes who live in the suburbs cannot vote for the mayor of the city where they work, shop, use public transportation and freeways, etc.

Unfortunately 99% of the French political class is completely oblivious to this problem.
Actually, in most cases North American cities aren't even close to being merged with *all* of their suburbs, but it's true they are merged with some of them.

I agree that it's generally a good thing.
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  #9051  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Did she remove 2 lanes from the freeways crossing Montréal?

Did she decrease the speed limit on Montréal freeways down to 50 km/h?

Did she close the expressway bordering the St Lawrence River and turn it into a pedestrian alley?

Did she subsidize and install an anti-capitalist, Green extremist association supposedly about "climate change" but in fact organizing parties and far-left events (such as "how to violate the law and resist authorities?") in the most historical town hall of Montréal?

Did she enforce 30 km/h speed limit on most side streets in Montréal?

Did she quadruple parking fees in Montréal, end free parking in August, and buy a fleet of municipal cars equipped with cameras to distribute a record number of fines to car drivers who exceed their parking time?

If the answer is NO to most of these questions, then she wouldn't quality as NFP in France (the far-left alliance that won the elections yesterday).
Plante would have less manoeuvre room given Grand Montréal's much more pro-car mentality relative to Paris, and Québec keeps her on a tighter leash. But she is definitely pushing in Hidalgo's direction, and many who live on the island love these policies:

The decommissioning of L'Autoroute Bonaventure (the freeway by the St Lawrence linking downtown with Pont Champlain) and turning it into a green urban boulevard is pretty much high on Valerie Plante's wish list, and it's widely understood on the island the Federal government agreed to it to appease her. https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand...e-bonaventure-transformee-d-ici-2029.php

Many Montréal boroughs have rolled out 30kpmh speed limits (though Toronto and Vancouver is doing the same, so maybe it's a national thing): https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/05/25/nouvelles-rues-a-30-km-h--forte-hausse-des-tickets

Some boroughs are already charging more for SUVs, inspired by Paris:
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand...dorenavant-factures-selon-leur-poids.php
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1382288/stationnement-plateau-arrondissement-vignette-place

Replacing parking with bike lanes, the most aggressive plan in North America:
https://www.24heures.ca/2023/10/26/une-g...-ont-ete-retirees-a-montreal-depuis-2018
     
     
  #9052  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:04 PM
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Why not? If the centrists and the Right both want to do something like that, they'll have the votes (­>50%) for it, no?
No. Centrists and the Right got only 40.0% of deputies in the National Assembly last night. They would need the support of either the far-right or the Socialists in order to cross the 50%, but the Socialists will never vote for such a law (since Anne Hidalgo is a Socialist), and the centrists will never agree to ally with the far-right to pass a bill.

Besides, in order to examine such a bill, there would have to be a government in the first place, and it looks like we won't have a government for many months, maybe until a new election takes place 12 months from now. And even if they managed to form a government by allying parties that are the opposite of each other, they would have other priorities than reforming the voting law for Paris, and the left-wing component of that government would not agree to such a law anyway.

It's game over really.

But of course all of this is "reculer pour mieux sauter" as we say in French. The most likely outcome is chaos until 2027, then the far-right winning absolute power in 2027. Then, they will probably disband the city council, but France will basculer dans une autre dimension with Le Pen president of France, and nobody can tell what will come out of it... It would have been far better if they had won now by a narrow margin, formed a government, but not be in control of the presidency, with probably a loss of support over the months, and defeat for them in 2027. Now instead they can run in the 2027 presidential election with no usure du pouvoir, which makes all the left-wing rejoicing last night a bit pathetic and misplaced, as they'll get far worse in 2027.
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  #9053  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:07 PM
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Even Valérie Plante is likely too far left for the Montreal of today, she'd unlikely to get reelected. Does the clear anti-incumbent trend we see nowadays in Quebec, Canada, Britain, the USA and France apply to Paris municipal politics too? I'd guess it does...?
Depends who runs against her I would think. If it's a rematch with Coderre, or a new matchup with Melanie Joly (or any other recycled candidates from the PLQ), I think Plante could survive.
     
     
  #9054  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:12 PM
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It's just some blabla for the cameras. In the real world, your Ms Plante would probably be sitting in the Macronist opposition in the Paris city council, and be decried as a "pro-car dinosaur" by our Cruella De Vil of a mayor Anne Hidalgo.

My point is, Montréal is not as left-wing as those French people living in Montréal, and there's nothing as left-wing as the NFP that wins elections in Montréal or rules the city. Thanks God for you guys.
No, Valerie Plante and Projet Montreal is firmly in the QS camp:

À Québec, Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, le co-porte-parole de Québec solidaire (QS), a estimé que la victoire de Valérie Plante est le symbole que « la gauche peut gagner au Québec [même si] tous les pronostics et les pessimistes disaient que Projet Montréal était trop radical et une "gang" de "pelleteux" de nuages ».

« Valérie Plante a démontré qu'en faisant des propositions concrètes, l'audace n'est pas un boulet, c'est un avantage. »


Les valeurs et les intérêts politiques communs sont nombreux entre Québec solidaire et Projet Montréal, reconnaissent les deux députés. Des membres de leur comité de coordination nationale ont ouvertement milité pour la formation politique montréalaise, Manon Massé a par le passé fait un don au parti et la conjointe d'Amir Khadir, Nimâ Machouf, était colistière de Richard Bergeron (autrefois chef de Projet Montréal) aux élections de 2009.

« C'est grâce à elle que Richard Bergeron a pu rentrer pour la première fois au conseil municipal. [...] Aujourd'hui, je suis très désolé pour mon ami [qui a perdu son siège, dimanche], mais c'est le résultat des mauvais choix qu'il a faits », résume le député de Mercier.

Pour Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, « il ne faut pas être Sherlock Holmes pour constater que les militants de Québec solidaire sont nombreux dans les rangs de Projet Montréal ». Or, si le parti se voit comme « le parti national de la gauche québécoise », il n'a pas officiellement appuyé les troupes de Valérie Plante, appelant plutôt ses militants à « aller sur le terrain pour faire avancer les candidatures progressistes ».


https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/polit...-gauche-pavoise-a-quebec-et-a-ottawa.php
     
     
  #9055  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:14 PM
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Plante would have less manoeuvre room given Grand Montréal's much more pro-car mentality relative to Paris
Grand Paris has a pro-car mentality too. The Right won the elections at the Grand Paris level. Problem is, the Grand Paris has almost no power, because a coalition of left-wing and right-wing Greater Parisians deputies in the National Assembly in 2013 diluted the bill creating the Greater Paris Metropolitan Council to make it almost entirely powerless (because otherwise it would have deprived the mayors of their powers, and each mayor tries to defend their powers, against the interests of the wider metropolis).

President Hollande didn't have the guts to force the merger of Paris and its suburbs. When Macron came to power in 2017, the Grand Paris dossier was top of his desk, but he dithered for more than a year (he had never really thought of the issue, was unsure whether the metropolitan authority should cover Paris and its closest suburbs, or the entire Île-de-France region), and eventually the Gilets Jaunes movement came, and he shelved the dossier indefinitely.

And that's how in 2024 we still have no real Greater Paris. Just a ghost of a metropolitan council with no powers and controlled by a right-wing suburban mayor always opposed to the idea of a Greater Paris who hijacked the metropolitan council with the help of Anne Hidalgo (both of them from opposite political sides, but in full agreement to deprive the metropolitan council of all powers and keep the local mayors in full control of everything... things like that really make you hate politics).

The Grand Paris metropolitan council: https://www.metropolegrandparis.fr/
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  #9056  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:22 PM
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Depends who runs against her I would think. If it's a rematch with Coderre, or a new matchup with Melanie Joly (or any other recycled candidates from the PLQ), I think Plante could survive.
I think Plante will be reelected. Her track record is mixed, but when you look back at Coderre, Appelbaum (went to prison), Tremblay (should have gone to prison) and Bourque.... she comes out much, much stronger. That list dates back to the 90s. Coderre is running for the PLQ leadership and as of today is the only declared candidate and presumptive front runner (though I think he will end up losing). I don't think there's much appetite for a pro-business, centre-right 'homme de la situation' mayor at the moment.

Would Mélanie Joly sufficiently distinguish herself from Plante? Probably not. Similar offerings and Plante benefits from experience at the municipal level while not being perceived as an absolute fail (see list above).

I've heard whisperings that sooner or later, GND will take a run. Looks as though he's survived the turmoils within QS for now, but sooner or later if their electoral fortunes don't improve, he'll be looking for another job.
     
     
  #9057  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:24 PM
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Grand Paris has a pro-car mentality too. The Right won the elections at the Grand Paris level. Problem is, the Grand Paris has almost no power, because a coalition of left-wing and right-wing Greater Parisians deputies in the National Assembly in 2013 diluted the bill creating the Greater Paris Metropolitan Council to make it almost entirely powerless (because otherwise it would have deprived the mayors of their powers, and each mayor tries to defend their powers, against the interests of the wider metropolis).
Euro-level pro-car still can't hold a candle to Québec. Look up the saga troisième lien to see how much Québec was willing to spend just for a road tunnel for Lévis. In a metro area of less than a million people. Even Anglophone provinces like Ontario and BC would freak out at the price tag.
     
     
  #9058  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:27 PM
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No, Valerie Plante and Projet Montreal is firmly in the QS camp:

À Québec, Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, le co-porte-parole de Québec solidaire (QS), a estimé que la victoire de Valérie Plante est le symbole que « la gauche peut gagner au Québec [même si] tous les pronostics et les pessimistes disaient que Projet Montréal était trop radical et une "gang" de "pelleteux" de nuages ».

« Valérie Plante a démontré qu'en faisant des propositions concrètes, l'audace n'est pas un boulet, c'est un avantage. »


Les valeurs et les intérêts politiques communs sont nombreux entre Québec solidaire et Projet Montréal, reconnaissent les deux députés. Des membres de leur comité de coordination nationale ont ouvertement milité pour la formation politique montréalaise, Manon Massé a par le passé fait un don au parti et la conjointe d'Amir Khadir, Nimâ Machouf, était colistière de Richard Bergeron (autrefois chef de Projet Montréal) aux élections de 2009.

« C'est grâce à elle que Richard Bergeron a pu rentrer pour la première fois au conseil municipal. [...] Aujourd'hui, je suis très désolé pour mon ami [qui a perdu son siège, dimanche], mais c'est le résultat des mauvais choix qu'il a faits », résume le député de Mercier.

Pour Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, « il ne faut pas être Sherlock Holmes pour constater que les militants de Québec solidaire sont nombreux dans les rangs de Projet Montréal ». Or, si le parti se voit comme « le parti national de la gauche québécoise », il n'a pas officiellement appuyé les troupes de Valérie Plante, appelant plutôt ses militants à « aller sur le terrain pour faire avancer les candidatures progressistes ».


https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/polit...-gauche-pavoise-a-quebec-et-a-ottawa.php
The PLQ also bears some responsibility for having allowed right-wing Anglophone municipalities to demerge from the City of Montréal in 2006. This stupid pandering to Anglophone voters has made the City of Montréal more left-wing (which ironically is detrimental to the Anglophone inhabitants of these demerged municipalities, who live on the same island as the City of Montréal and have to use its infrastructure, now decided by more left-wing voters than them...) Brilliant really!

That said, she would still have some way to go before being as left-wing as Anne Hidalgo. And as Acajack said, the province of Québec controls some key infrastructure in Montréal, whereas the listless François Hollande transferred the Périphérique beltway and the riverside expressways to the City of Paris in late 2016 in order to neutralize Anne Hidalgo for his reelection bid in 2017 (which didn't even materialize in the end, the supreme irony of all this political scheming!).
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  #9059  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:29 PM
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I think Plante will be reelected. Her track record is mixed, but when you look back at Coderre, Appelbaum (went to prison), Tremblay (should have gone to prison) and Bourque.... she comes out much, much stronger. That list dates back to the 90s. Coderre is running for the PLQ leadership and as of today is the only declared candidate and presumptive front runner (though I think he will end up losing). I don't think there's much appetite for a pro-business, centre-right 'homme de la situation' mayor at the moment.

Would Mélanie Joly sufficiently distinguish herself from Plante? Probably not. Similar offerings and Plante benefits from experience at the municipal level while not being perceived as an absolute fail (see list above).

I've heard whisperings that sooner or later, GND will take a run. Looks as though he's survived the turmoils within QS for now, but sooner or later if their electoral fortunes don't improve, he'll be looking for another job.
Pretty much agree 100% with your analysis. Joly would be a clown show, it'll just be a continuation of her current dithering in Trudeau's cabinet.

GND would be interesting. I doubt he would be pragmatic like Olivia Chow though, and could just end up being a statist socialist.

I could also see Guilbeault parachuting himself in the race trumpeting some kind of radical green agenda that would make Plante blush.
     
     
  #9060  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2024, 3:30 PM
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The PLQ also bears some responsibility for having allowed right-wing Anglophone municipalities to demerge from the City of Montréal in 2006. This stupid pandering to Anglophone voters has made the City of Montréal more left-wing (which ironically is detrimental to the Anglophone inhabitants of these demerged municipalities, who live on the same island as the City of Montréal and have to use its infrastructure, now decided by more left-wing voters than them...) Brilliant really!

That said, she would still have some way to go before being as left-wing as Anne Hidalgo. And as Acajack said, the province of Québec controls some key infrastructure in Montréal, whereas the listless François Hollande transferred the Périphérique beltway and the riverside expressways to the City of Paris in late 2016 in order to neutralize Anne Hidalgo for his reelection bid in 2017 (which didn't even materialize in the end, the supreme irony of all this political scheming!).
If you want to argue that the demerged anglophone municipalities are more right-wing then the core-island municipalities, that would legitimate, although the gap isn't nearly as wide as you might think. But calling the municipalities and their inhabitants right-wing is off base, and not backed up by any voting data in recent memory.
     
     
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