Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[kwoldtimer]

The title of this thread may need to be change to include French (or other foreign) politics.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So as we can see, French people in French Canada (particularly in the Montréal area) tend to be disproportionately leftist woke youths, i.e. your typical QS voter in Québec. Less sleek white collar and more bohemian type.

The Macron centrist candidate got the highest share of votes in NYC (52.7%), the San Francisco Bay Area (51.7%) and Boston (51.3%). In comparison this same candidate got only 28.5% of votes in Montréal (lowest share of votes in all of North America) and 39.9% in Toronto. I think you can clearly see which sorts of French expats Montréal and Toronto get, as opposed to those who go live in NYC, Boston, or Silicon Valley.

Fascinating snapshot these election results.

Fascinating indeed. Does speak to the fact that Montréal is the new world Francophone metropolis bar none, and attracts the French from all walks of life including professionals, artists, young expats and many students going to McGill, UdeM etc. It's a much bigger potpourri than the typical North American expat community, in that it's disproportionately youthful and mainly from the large French urban centres.

Toronto is closer to SF/NYC in the latter regard, in that it mainly attracts the professional set and enterpreneurs from France, primarily to establish a career or build a business. Toronto isn't a place for the French to discover themselves or live out their joie de vivre.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Fascinating indeed. Does speak to the fact that Montréal is the new world Francophone metropolis bar none, and attracts the French from all walks of life including professionals, artists, young expats and many students going to McGill, UdeM etc.

I disagree. If it attracted French people from all walks of life, then the far-right candidates would have had 34% of votes, not 11%. And the far-left candidate would be 3rd, not #1 and almost reaching absolute majority.

What these figures show is Montréal attracts disproportionately young woke leftist French people, not the sort of high-flying white-collar that Silicon Valley, NYC or Boston attract, but more the bohemian type who is going to open the umpteenth French boulangerie or bar.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The title of this thread may need to be change to include French (or other foreign) politics.

And moved out of this forum, since French politics isn't really relevant to Canada.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And moved out of this forum, since French politics isn't really relevant to Canada.

Yes, although I suspect some might disagree.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I disagree. If it attracted French people from all walks of life, then the far-right candidates would have had 34% of votes, not 11%. And the far-left candidate would be 3rd, not #1 and almost reaching absolute majority.

What these figures show is Montréal attracts disproportionately young woke leftist French people, not the sort of high-flying white-collar that Silicon Valley, NYC or Boston attract, but more the bohemian type who is going to open the umpteenth French boulangerie or bar.

I showed this post to 2 of my French colleagues of the six working at our architecture firm (most of them are landscape architects!). They literally laughed out loud.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And moved out of this forum, since French politics isn't really relevant to Canada.

It's kind of interesting as it reveals the type of immigrants from France Quebec is attracting (or at least the ones that vote). Interesting if France makes a hard right turn will be see the French citizens who are in the opressed camp start to immigrate to Canada/Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And moved out of this forum, since French politics isn't really relevant to Canada.

Why can't people just sit back, relax and enjoy the ride?

It's been an awesome couple of weeks for political geeks, with the Toronto byelection, the French first round elections, the US presidential debate, and now this week the British elections and the French second round.

Savour the moment, people! Wherever you can.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

That's an interesting take because my SO's coverage at work includes the US East Coast centering on New England, so SO's down south on a regular basis on business and conferences.

In SO's view, except for the extreme hinterlands in Vermont and Maine bordering Quebec with their Little Canadas curious about their ancestral heritage, most Americans really only fetishize and romanticize the French accent, and not the French language itself. They treat it as an exotic amuse bouche.

SO says the French accent does grab a lot of attention south of the border in New England and helps with closing deals, but a Canadian Anglophone can basically fake a French accent and achieve the same result.
.

Most people in most places tend to be low information. Of course this includes the US.

I don't think the average person stateside can tell a French Canadian accent apart from a European French accent.

Heck, even in Europe young Québécois pass for French all the time in non-francophone countries, and can get the free EU youth admission to museums and other cultural places even without asking sometimes. As people simply overhear a few French words and assume they're French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Shhhh. You're going to hurt his bias that RoC hates French and Quebec. A lot of the views here are sometimes like several decades out of date.

Not only do elites still value bilingualism. But increasingly that preference is true for middle class immigrant families too.

I don't think there is a broad level of hate, but Wikipedia doesn't have a dedicated page on Quebec bashing for no reason.

Opinions on the various groups inhabiting the country vary from person to person. I wouldn't for example deny that many Québécois francophones are anglophobic. Though in their case it's usually more a case of bitter resentment than it is thinking that anglophones are inferior to them.

Another thing is that prestige for French in certain upper crust circles in Anglo-Canada can simply be reading the room when it comes to Canadian power corridors, as opposed to a sincere appreciation for the francophone contribution to the country.

You can take note of that as part of your calculations for your kids' future, and still think English-French bilingualism is an unfair or illogical imposition, and that French Canadians are deservedly lower on the pecking order.

[lio45]

The analysis of where the expats in Montreal are located on the political left-right spectrum is both interesting and on-topic, IMO.

[dleung]

imagine griping about not receiving the due privilege owed solely to one's heritage when just about every other group is far lower on the pecking order and treated as such

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Why can't people just sit back, relax and enjoy the ride?

It's been an awesome couple of weeks for political geeks, with the Toronto byelection, the French first round elections, the US presidential debate, and now this week the British elections and the French second round.

Savour the moment, people! Wherever you can.

True, these past couple weeks have been very exciting politically! For us Québécois at least — as Canadians and North Americans too, all of the above “feels relatable”. (For Europeans, the Toronto byelection wouldn’t be part of their list; for North American Anglos, the French legislatives would be too foreign to be on it.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

imagine griping about not receiving the due privilege owed to one's heritage when there are so many other groups far lower on the pecking order and treated as such

What exactly are you whining about again? It’s not clear

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Zeej

I showed this post to 2 of my French colleagues of the six working at our architecture firm (most of them are landscape architects!). They literally laughed out loud.

And? Facts are facts. 34% of French voters voted for far-right candidates last Sunday. Only 11% in Montréal consular area. 28% of French people voted for the far-left NFP alliance, whereas 50% did so in the Montréal consular area. So no, the French people in Montréal do not come from all walks of life and are not representative of the French population at large, no matter what your laughing friends think (but their denial is itself quite telling).

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

And? Facts are facts. 34% of French voters voted for far-right candidates last Sunday. Only 11% in Montréal consular area. 28% of French people voted for the far-left NFP alliance, whereas 50% did so in the Montréal consular area. So no, the French people in Montréal do not come from all walks of life and are not representative of the French population at large, no matter what your laughing friends think (but their denial is itself quite telling).

What if, perhaps, they do come from many walks of life, but for various reasons chose to vote similarly? It really doesn't equate with being leftist woke types.

I would doubt very strongly that these French expatriates represent the French population at large, seeing as how they've chosen to leave France.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It's kind of interesting as it reveals the type of immigrants from France Quebec is attracting (or at least the ones that vote).

Interestingly the turnout in the Montréal consular area was the highest in all of North America, with nearly half of registered French voters turning out to vote. So this shows the French people in Montréal are more transient, less well established, people staying there temporarily but still very much focused on French issues.

In comparison, the lowest turnouts were in LA (22.8%) and Miami (27.2%). The French people there are far more detached from what's going on in France, which I can totally understand as I used to live in California and felt very detached from France back then (I did not even bother to vote in the French presidential election).

It will be a challenge for Québec to keep these transient French expats long term I think (although since there are always new newcomers, it might not be such an issue if many leave after a few years, inflows being always larger than outflows).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Savour the moment, people! Wherever you can.

Before WW3.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Interestingly the turnout in the Montréal consular area was the highest in all of North America, with nearly half of registered French voters turning out to vote. So this shows the French people in Montréal are more transient, less well established, people staying there temporarily but still very much focused on French issues.

In comparison, the lowest turnouts were in LA (22.8%) and Miami (27.2%). The French people there are far more detached from what's going on in France, which I can totally understand as I used to live in California and felt very detached from France back then (I did not even bother to vote in the French presidential election).

It will be a challenge for Québec to keep these transient French expats long term I think (although since there are always new newcomers, it might not be such an issue if many leave after a few years, inflows being always larger than outflows).

Well living in a French speaking place where the election is a topic of conversation will do that. Their vote also reflects how Quebec would vote if allowed. Just as Biden would win in a landslide in English Canada and among American expats in Canada. While they tend to be more leftist as well becaue Canada is more leftist. This isn't the same in Quebec and actually I would think some flee the opressive nature of the French job market for Quebec.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Zeej

I would doubt very strongly that these French expatriates represent the French population at large, seeing as how they've chosen to leave France.

Except for mass evacuations during wartime or after a major disaster, it’s pretty much a given that the subset of the population that chooses to emigrate won’t be a perfectly representative sample of the entire population; there’s a huge sample selection bias that’s built in