The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

New Brunswick does not have the population or money to support this. That is the short answer.

There is a certain subset of Maritimers - bitter, angry and defeatist who seem to feel that there is nothing that we can do right, and, as such, we shouldn't even bother trying.

The tenor of your posts display evidence of this bitterness.

New Brunswickers can and should continue to strive to become the best versions of themselves. We can do better. We can progress, to the betterment of all. Sometimes it takes an investment in time and money, and, sometimes we will fail, but, occasionally we win.

The two major areas of social investment the government should continue to support are education and healthcare.

Equity in educational opportunity requires broad based accessibility. A single university in the capital does not cut it.

And, you are wrong about the quality of health care in this province. Almost all of the practitioners I know strive to do their best, and, are highly trained. The range and breadth of procedures performed in our tertiary care hospitals is actually impressive. Accessibility is an issue, mostly because of lack of resources, but, once you actually enter a care pathway, you are looked after very well.

The improvement in the quality of health care in this province progresses in lock step with the increasing sophistication of the medical schools at UNBSJ and UdeM and the programs that they administer. Just the other week, a neurosurgeon at the Moncton Hospital performed the first deep brain stimulation surgery for Parkinson's disease in the provinces history. The staff at the hospital took great pride in this advance. It made us feel good about what we do. If we want this virtuous circle of improvement to continue, then further strengthening of the medical schools in this province will have to continue.

Or, we could simply throw our hands up in despair and offload responsibility to Halifax. Since you are a defeatist, I already know what you would like to see happen.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is a certain subset of Maritimers - bitter, angry and defeatist who seem to feel that there is nothing that we can do right, and, as such, we shouldn't even bother trying.

The tenor of your posts display evidence of this bitterness.

New Brunswickers can and should continue to strive to become the best versions of themselves. We can do better. We can progress, to the betterment of all. Sometimes it takes an investment in time and money, and, sometimes we will fail, but, occasionally we win.

The two major areas of social investment the government should continue to support are education and healthcare.

Equity in educational opportunity requires broad based accessibility. A single university in the capital does not cut it.

And, you are wrong about the quality of health care in this province. Almost all of the practitioners I know strive to do their best, and, are highly trained. The range and breadth of procedures performed in our tertiary care hospitals is actually impressive. Accessibility is an issue, mostly because of lack of resources, but, once you actually enter a care pathway, you are looked after very well.

The improvement in the quality of health care in this province progresses in lock step with the increasing sophistication of the medical schools at UNBSJ and UdeM and the programs that they administer. Just the other week, a neurosurgeon at the Moncton Hospital performed the first deep brain stimulation surgery for Parkinson's disease in the provinces history. The staff at the hospital took great pride in this advance. It made us feel good about what we do. If we want this virtuous circle of improvement to continue, then further strengthening of the medical schools in this province will have to continue.

Or, we could simply throw our hands up in despair and offload responsibility to Halifax. Since you are a defeatist, I already know what you would like to see happen.

Not a defeatest. Also not a maritimer. I did spend a lot of time there over the decades and have many relationships with people there in business and government. The facile analysis you present is not convincing. As for the healthcare, it is truly terrible. It is not an attack on individual doctors as you seem to be taking it. The comment on the universities is just plain wrong.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

Not a defeatest. Also not a maritimer. I did spend a lot of time there over the decades and have many relationships with people there in business and government. The facile analysis you present is not convincing. As for the healthcare, it is truly terrible. It is not an attack on individual doctors as you seem to be taking it. The comment on the universities is just plain wrong.

Thanks for the clarification. The only people worth convincing are those who would attend the satellite facility and those that can make it happen. The entirety of your rebuttal is the opinion that "NB is too small and poor but somehow still overserviced" which is frankly, quite weak. You'll need to work a little harder.

Edit: When were you last in NB and visited a hospital? (genuinely curious)

[new kid in town]

Had a huge talk with my coworkers yesterday--2 LPNs are considering to bridge to RN and apparently SJ does still have the monopoly on that specific program. The LPN to RN bridge here in Moncton is in French. They are quite reluctant to pursue the bridging program because of the daily drives involved. Even then, they said the slots for this year's batch is already full. That means an entire year (at least) of waiting again. That's just in the unit I work in. I know of a handful other Canadian-educated LPNs desperate for a way to bridge to RN.

As mentioned already a few pages back, there is no BScN/BN proper here (neither the 4 year traditional nor the 3 year accelerated) in Moncton from UNB. While a case can be made that these are available through Oulton or Beale's (Maine-based), these are both pilot programs. The latter has had a very very rough start, and it would not surprise me if it would not continue beyond this current pilot batch.

The only NP program available in Moncton is through UdeM, which requires university-level French. Not accessible for anglophones. UNB NP classes are still based out of SJ/Freddy even though they have local placements here. Again, the commute being highly discouraging for aspiring applicants, some of which, I personally know or work with. NP program is 2 full years of learning, so a significant portion of that will require daily drives. It is also offered only every other 2 years (i.e., 2025, 2027, 2029,...).

The above reasons are why I want and support UNB Nursing expansion (at the very least) in Moncton. They already have a foot in, and would be much easier to build on. It would be lovely of course if other programs and disciplines would be offered, but I have not the specific knowledge on what drives the need, nor do I know enough people in other industries to share anecdotes about.

[MonctonRad]

It's a shame what happened to nursing education on the anglophone side in Moncton. There used to be a full (and highly respected) nursing school at the Moncton Hospital. It was subsequently taken over by UNB, and, now there are only vestiges left, and, the tattered remains are administered from a muffler shop on Assumption Blvd.

Very sad.

Definitely time for a renaissance. It will be interesting to see what UNB has in mind.

[jonny golden]

I remember the nursing school at the Moncton hospital and it was very well respected. Several students I went to high school with entered the program and became nurses. It was a very popular option to have available in Moncton.

Do we know when UNB will reveal their plans for their "Moncton expansion?" I really hope it's something substantial and is located in the downtown core.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Thanks for the clarification. The only people worth convincing are those who would attend the satellite facility and those that can make it happen. The entirety of your rebuttal is the opinion that "NB is too small and poor but somehow still overserviced" which is frankly, quite weak. You'll need to work a little harder.

Edit: When were you last in NB and visited a hospital? (genuinely curious)

Sure, weak. It's called understanding numbers. It is not too small. That is not the argument being advanced. Also, when it comes to universities New Brunswick is over serviced. Too much money being spent with declining enrolment and foreign students making up the budget shortfall. I have very good information from your province that is not for your eyes so you will have to take my word for it or at least do some more research.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Thanks for the clarification. The only people worth convincing are those who would attend the satellite facility and those that can make it happen. The entirety of your rebuttal is the opinion that "NB is too small and poor but somehow still overserviced" which is frankly, quite weak. You'll need to work a little harder.

Edit: When were you last in NB and visited a hospital? (genuinely curious)

Again, when was the last time I was in your hospitals. I do not need to go into your hospitals to know what is going on there and I have had some people I know die in the great health care system there due to the fact it is stretched beyond its ability to function properly.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

Again, when was the last time I was in your hospitals. I do not need to go into your hospitals to know what is going on there and I have had some people I know die in the great health care system there due to the fact it is stretched beyond its ability to function properly.

This is not news. The medical system in N.B. has been bad for most of my life. My son spent his entire hospital stay of three days in a corner of a hallway at the Moncton hospital. That was twenty years ago. I do not wish bad things on others but it is interesting to see other parts of the country now dealing with situations we have been dealing with for, well, as long as I can remember.

[adamuptownsj]

I take a dim view of Canadian healthcare generally, and Maritime healthcare in particular. It's terrible, I will not cheerlead for it. But, I fail to see how training more, better nurses at more hospitals will make it worse. Moncton getting a proper set of health programs is an unalloyed good.

[Dieppe Diva]

If I could offer some perspective of adding a UNB campus in Moncton, or elsewhere, I can say that it's a very very expensive endeavor.

The Maritime provinces and most of the Universities in the Maritimes are part of an alliance of higher education (MPHEC). MPHEC has the responsibility of ensuring that the programs delivered are up to snuff and to facilitate cost-effectiveness of and accessibility to, with the broadest range of programs.

Adding seats for programs for Universities across the Maritime provinces is looked as a whole. Who has the ability to deliver the best program for the identified need be it for anglophones or francophones.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to set up a campus in Moncton. But typically, Universities have opened programs in satellite campuses where and when there was a specific need/shortage of professionals in a field. This explains the implementation of a UNB nursing program in Moncton.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

Sure, weak. It's called understanding numbers. It is not too small. That is not the argument being advanced. Also, when it comes to universities New Brunswick is over serviced. Too much money being spent with declining enrolment and foreign students making up the budget shortfall. I have very good information from your province that is not for your eyes so you will have to take my word for it or at least do some more research.

Trust you. Got it.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Trust you. Got it.

I think since an election is coming you will get your wish in some form and that is all that I will say on that. It is too bad, Same mistakes made over and over. A region that dooms itself from financial mismanagement and bad decisions. And also, it goes without saying U d M is a huge waste of money and probably gets far more funding than the English language universities. Their graduates almost all work in English. Horrible waste of resources.

[SevenSquared]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

And also, it goes without saying U d M is a huge waste of money and probably gets far more funding than the English language universities. Their graduates almost all work in English. Horrible waste of resources.

I'm absolutely shocked it took two days for you to reach the point where you'd finally blurt this out.

Now let's hear your thoughts on St. Thomas, specifically why you haven't been advocating for its abolition on the Fredericton thread since you created this account.

Incroyable.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dieppe Diva

If I could offer some perspective of adding a UNB campus in Moncton, or elsewhere, I can say that it's a very very expensive endeavor.

The Maritime provinces and most of the Universities in the Maritimes are part of an alliance of higher education (MPHEC). MPHEC has the responsibility of ensuring that the programs delivered are up to snuff and to facilitate cost-effectiveness of and accessibility to, with the broadest range of programs.

Adding seats for programs for Universities across the Maritime provinces is looked as a whole. Who has the ability to deliver the best program for the identified need be it for anglophones or francophones.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to set up a campus in Moncton. But typically, Universities have opened programs in satellite campuses where and when there was a specific need/shortage of professionals in a field. This explains the implementation of a UNB nursing program in Moncton.

Welcome to the forums.

I am well aware of the presence and the importance of the MPHEC. This is why the lack of membership of Crandall University in MPHEC is a concern, and casts some doubt on the value of the degrees issued by that institution. Crandall is a "Christian" university, and, sometimes I think it is more important for that particular institution to be "Christian" than it is to be a university. I'm sure the teaching at Crandall is of genuinely reasonable quality, (the leadership seems sincere) but, they should be doing more to ensure that the qualifications they issue to graduating students are recognizable by other institutions. Because Crandall is a private university with accreditation only from various sundry associations of Christian (faith based) universities, it just does not meet the priorities or needs of Moncton university students. Crandall needs to join MPHEC. Unfortunately, Crandall believes doing so would violate their Christian principles. Moncton students looking at a local option for university education may be conflicted and/or unsure about whether Crandall is a good option.

I'm sure MPHEC has a role to play in policing professional and graduate programs at Maritime universities. I was an undergrad at UPEI when the university was given the School of Veterinary Medicine. I was actually the student representative on the committee which chose the first Dean for this school. If I recall, MPHEC made a recommendation to locate the program at UPEI, but, the various provincial governments in the region had to sign off on this recommendation. UPEI got the nod because PEI was the only province in the region without a professional school.

We do not want a surplus of veterinarians, lawyers, doctors, pharmacists and other professionals in the Maritimes. The supply of students should be titrated to generally meet the demands for the graduates.

I think that the law of supply and demand matter less for basic undergraduate education in the arts and sciences however. An extra couple of hundred BA & BSc students per year from a campus of UNBM will not subvert the marketplace, especially since the graduates do not have the educational attainment to work beyond the technical level. All baccalaureate level education really accomplishes is the creation of a well educated workforce. If students subsequently want to be professional scientists or educators, they will need a second degree and/or masters or doctoral level training. MPHEC input regarding entry level degree programs, and, where they are offered therefore matters less than it would for professional degrees and graduate level programs.

Even for professional level degrees, political expedience can subvert any MPHEC influence. The classical examples here are the recently announced and approved medical schools at CBU and UPEI, both of which will be located in smaller cities with a dearth of appropriately trained specialist and subspecialist physicians to act as mentors, less well equipped non tertiary care hospitals, and, an insufficient patient population to allow students the chance to gain experience with exotic diseases. Neither Charlottetown or Sydney should be getting medical schools. Instead, arrangements should have been made to purchase more seats at Dalhousie for both PEI and Cape Breton students but, with a return of service commitment from students entering into these programs.

MPHEC has a role, but, as noted above, decisions are often political, and MPHEC can be ignored by the decision makers. MPHEC should have a role in modulating enrolment levels in professional and graduate programs, but, their input on the number of undergraduate students in the system is less clear.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

I'm absolutely shocked it took two days for you to reach the point where you'd finally blurt this out.

Now let's hear your thoughts on St. Thomas, specifically why you haven't been advocating for its abolition on the Fredericton thread since you created this account.

Incroyable.

You are the only one talking about that in your endless cheerleading for Moncton. That is why. I have not seen anything about that to comment on.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

You are the only one talking about that in your endless cheerleading for Moncton. That is why. I have not seen anything about that to comment on.

You've been doing an effective job of revealing yourself as nothing more than a troll.

I shall not be responding to any of your trollish posts in the future. I encourage all other SSP Moncton members to do the same.

If you continue to be disruptive on any of the Moncton threads, I will seek the assistance of a mod to suspend or ban you. Helpful or productive comments however remain more than welcome.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You've been doing an effective job of revealing yourself as nothing more than a troll.

I shall not be responding to any of your trollish posts in the future. I encourage all other SSP Moncton members to do the same.

If you continue to be disruptive on any of the Moncton threads, I will seek the assistance of a mod to suspend or ban you. Helpful or productive comments however remain more than welcome.

If you do not like what someone is saying, it is not trolling. Maybe you should stop posting. Others have posted comments that support what I was saying so it seems you just do not like to hear what you do not like. That is not trolling.

[MonctonRad]

Universities in British Columbia:

1) - UBC (public) - Vancouver & Kelowna.
2) - Capilano University (public) - North Vancouver
3) - Emily Carr University (public) - Vancouver
4) - University of the Fraser Valley (public) - Abbotsford, Agassiz, Chilliwack, Hope & Mission
5) - Kwantien Polytechnic University (public) - Surrey, Richmond, Langley, Whalley, Cloverdale
6) - University of Northern BC (public) - Prince George, Prince Rupert, Terrace, Quesnel, Fort St. John
7) - Royal Roads University (public) - Colwood
8) - Simon Fraser University (public) - Burnaby, Surrey, Vancouver
9) - Thompson Rivers University (public) - Kamloops, Willams Lake
10) - Trinity Western University (private) - Langley, Richmond
11) - Vancouver Island University (public) - Nanaimo, Powell River, Duncan, Parksville
12) - University of Victoria (public) - Victoria
13) - Regent College (private) - Vancouver
14) - University Canada West (private) - Vancouver

So, British Columbia has 14 universities, 11 of them public, operating on 34 campuses throughout the province, many in communities much smaller than Moncton. Eight of the universities in fact have multiple campuses.

Why is it so difficult to believe that UNB could add a third campus?

[jonny golden]

So has Thrive Properties completely stopped all construction activities, or do they still have any building projects on the go? Their Tides building in Riverview was recently completed and looks to be filling up nicely, if it's not already sold out.

They were very active builders, I still wonder what happened with them.