PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Radio5]

Didn't snap a photo, but man, the black bands around the new PMC tower look pretty cheap. I think because it's not smooth like the in the rendering. They are jaggered in pieces. Hopefully, it will blend in with the other details they are putting in like the orange stripes etc.

Spark's facade on the other hand is looking great.

[PhillyPDX]

Spent the last week in and around center city-university city, and it must be said, the current level of construction is impressive. In this current economic climate, with the worst financing conditions in a generation, and it felt as if I could look in many directions and see construction cranes and otherwise positive developments under construction. For a non sunbelt city, this is a such a good sign for Philly.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

Spent the last week in and around center city-university city, and it must be said, the current level of construction is impressive. In this current economic climate, with the worst financing conditions in a generation, and it felt as if I could look in many directions and see construction cranes and otherwise positive developments under construction. For a non sunbelt city, this is a such a good sign for Philly.

We would have been going through the second peak of this construction boom era had the interest rate landscape not changed. The Mark and the new CHOP hospital are technically the tallest U/C right now and both are but a floor or two above ground currently. Both will be exciting to see get taller. If interest rates were still low, we probably would be seeing the Big Red tower of the schuylkill yards rise and the first buildings of the Penn's Landing redevelopment being built.

[Redddog]

Rates will start to recede this year and accelerate through 2025.

Now is the time to start planning projects.

[R5Ryder]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Rates will start to recede this year and accelerate through 2025.

Now is the time to start planning projects.

Maybe residential projects or research / medical, but can't imagine too many (if any) office towers being constructed regardless of how far along they were in the planning stages.

[El Duderino]

Zoning permits were issued yesterday for A Man Full of Trouble Tavern at 127-29 Spruce Street. Permits call for an eating and drinking establishment. It's awesome seeing the momentum in this area

https://x.com/JackPhillyRE/status/1808496988838600990

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by R5Ryder

Maybe residential projects or research / medical, but can't imagine too many (if any) office towers being constructed regardless of how far along they were in the planning stages.

Office towers are rarely done on spec. But you are correct...this market (and the office space market in general) is challenging right now. The WFH death knell has waned a bit as Covid WFH is starting to go away, but dumping a few hundred million into commercial real estate on spec is unlikely even in the most favorable rate environments.

Residential/Biotech/hotel are all reasonable bets at the moment. Philly, despite the addition of some hotel capacity recently remains desperately in need of more hotel rooms at the moment - really in all areas of the city.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

Zoning permits were issued yesterday for A Man Full of Trouble Tavern at 127-29 Spruce Street. Permits call for an eating and drinking establishment. It's awesome seeing the momentum in this area

https://x.com/JackPhillyRE/status/1808496988838600990

Cool!!

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Residential/Biotech/hotel are all reasonable bets at the moment. Philly, despite the addition of some hotel capacity recently remains desperately in need of more hotel rooms at the moment - really in all areas of the city.

I would agree with that assessment. On the hospitality front, I have to think that an increasing crackdown on Airbnbs would only serve to boost the hotel market. It's only a matter of time.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I would agree with that assessment. On the hospitality front, I have to think that an increasing crackdown on Airbnbs would only serve to boost the hotel market. It's only a matter of time.

If I was a hotelier, I'd be looking HARD at Philly. This town could fill 3 more hotels to capacity right now. U City, Center City, Old City... All could use one or more. It's crazy.

[Broadcastthatboom]

Originally Posted by Redddog

If I was a hotelier, I'd be looking HARD at Philly. This town could fill 3 more hotels to capacity right now. U City, Center City, Old City... All could use one or more. It's crazy.

A hotel component in Schuylkill Yards could get the big red tower of the ground I would think? Seems like a no-brainer esp. for being situated right next to 30th Street, Drexel+UPenn.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Redddog

If I was a hotelier, I'd be looking HARD at Philly. This town could fill 3 more hotels to capacity right now. U City, Center City, Old City... All could use one or more. It's crazy.

Agree, though hotel brands don't seem all that focused on Philadelphia, at least compared to other large markets (Boston, DC, Chicago, Montreal, etc.).

I am Marriott guy and they can support more mid-range/high-end brands in Philadelphia.

High-end:
The Edition (this really needs to be in Philadelphia, even Detroit is getting one!).
A Luxury Collection, Portfolio Collection or JW Marriott.
Another Autograph Collection (the Notary Hotel is great).

Mid-range:
AC
Delta
Moxy

Of course there are plenty non-Marriott brands too, CitizenM, Virgin, anything under Hilton, Hyatt, etc., comes to mind.

It would have been cool if a one or several of the above opened by 2026. And it seems like a no brainer to add a hotel to Schuylkill Yards, literally steps from 30th Street Station.

[Broadcastthatboom]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Agree, though hotel brands don't seem all that focused on Philadelphia, at least compared to other large markets (Boston, DC, Chicago, Montreal, etc.).

I am Marriott guy and they can support more mid-range/high-end brands in Philadelphia.

High-end:
The Edition (this really needs to be in Philadelphia, even Detroit is getting one!).
A Luxury Collection, Portfolio Collection or JW Marriott.
Another Autograph Collection (the Notary Hotel is great).

Mid-range:
AC
Delta
Moxy

Of course there are plenty non-Marriott brands too, CitizenM, Virgin, anything under Hilton, Hyatt, etc., comes to mind.

It would have been cool if a one or several of the above opened by 2026. And it seems like a no brainer to add a hotel to Schuylkill Yards, literally steps from 30th Street Station.

Virgin Hotels did initially invest in a Broad and Lombard proposal before it switched to residential, I wonder if they are still looking into the Philly Market elsewhere?

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Broadcastthatboom

Virgin Hotels did initially invest in a Broad and Lombard proposal before it switched to residential, I wonder if they are still looking into the Philly Market elsewhere?

Would love to see them next to Penns Landing when done.

[gjrip]

I think that an Aloft Hotel (modern/urban/artsy Marriott BONVOY hotel) or something would do so well nearby to the Piazza/2nd Street in NoLibs or at Girard and Frankford area in Fishtown as well. So many venues and food/drink establishments, casino, rail connection to CC, riverfront access, highway access, etc.. Neat local vibe, culture, and architecture. Would be a slam dunk.

I have a lot of customers from out of town who end up visiting those areas with me and they all wish they could stay there.

[El Duderino]

SLS also had plans to be part of the Arthaus proposal initially - there's seemingly an interest in the city, but we need to see some more of these brands to take the next step.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Broadcastthatboom

Virgin Hotels did initially invest in a Broad and Lombard proposal before it switched to residential, I wonder if they are still looking into the Philly Market elsewhere?

Virgin did mention Philadelphia in their expansion plans (maybe 2 years ago?), so hopefully an instance where they are looking for the right spot and timing (for financials).

Originally Posted by El Duderino

SLS also had plans to be part of the Arthaus proposal initially - there's seemingly an interest in the city, but we need to see some more of these brands to take the next step.

SLS would have been cool and unique to Philadelphia, since the brand only has 2 US locations (LA & Miami).

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by gjrip

I think that an Aloft Hotel (modern/urban/artsy Marriott BONVOY hotel) or something would do so well nearby to the Piazza/2nd Street in NoLibs or at Girard and Frankford area in Fishtown as well. So many venues and food/drink establishments, casino, rail connection to CC, riverfront access, highway access, etc.. Neat local vibe, culture, and architecture. Would be a slam dunk.

I have a lot of customers from out of town who end up visiting those areas with me and they all wish they could stay there.

This is pure speculation but NREI owns almost the entire block of N 2nd between Callowhill and Spring Garden. I have a suspicion they're going to put a mid level boutique chain in that zone (think Canopy, Moxy, Citizen M, etc). It's the perfect spot for it. If not there, somewhere on Spring Garden itself.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Would love to see them next to Penns Landing when done.

Unfortunately, The DRWC awarded that contract to a corporation that has no plans to actually develop properties in Philly. So any project next to Penn's Landing is a nonstarter.

Still absolutely mystified that the DRWC would knowingly partner with someone like Durst.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Unfortunately, The DRWC awarded that contract to a corporation that has no plans to actually develop properties in Philly. So any project next to Penn's Landing is a nonstarter.

Still absolutely mystified that the DRWC would knowingly partner with someone like Durst.

DRWC still owns the land so it's not that big of a deal. Also I think we were all ecstatic they picked Durst at the time? They're a big time NYC developer over 100 years old who build the One World Trade Center and Bank of America tower. The other bids were for the 76ers new arena and then these two:

Penn’s Landing Community Partners:
https://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/p...ceptual-design
(no real track record of success from them IMO)

Hoffman & Associates:
https://billypenn.com/2020/09/03/pen...dc-water-taxi/

In hindsight, yeah I guess they should have gone with Hoffman & Associates but the massing kind of sucked of that project. Squat buildings to block skyline views from Camden instead of towers like Durst. DRWC has done more in the last 15 years on the waterfront than the last 100 years before that. I trust them to do the right thing.



https://drwcsite.s3.amazonaws.com/fi...-meeting-1.pdf