The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[jnaygull]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

2 people rescued from fire in two downtown houses
Weekend fire poses challenges for Moncton Fire Department
Author of the article:Sarah Seeley
Published Jun 24, 2024 • Last updated 18 hours ago • 3 minute read
https://tj.news/moncton-miramichi/2-...owntown-houses (paywall)

The fact this was a full alarm fire requiring all available firefighters from the city's five fire stations, should be a serious wake-up call for a city that will have 8-10 residential high rise buildings in it's downtown core within a decade.

Do we have the resources to fight a fire in buildings that will be as tall as 30-40 storeys???

I think the answer is "perhaps not."

Even with the help of the Riverview and Dieppe fire departments, I think things would be very problematic. Perhaps we should start planning for the future fire fighting needs of the city (and metro area) now...........

While I certainly understand the need to scale the firefighting capabilities of the region, I also believe there's a misallocation of resources when it comes to what firefighters are responsible for. I have spoken with a firefighter who has said that he longs to fight fires again and that now, most of their calls are for drug overdoses and the like.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by jnaygull

While I certainly understand the need to scale the firefighting capabilities of the region, I also believe there's a misallocation of resources when it comes to what firefighters are responsible for. I have spoken with a firefighter who has said that he longs to fight fires again and that now, most of their calls are for drug overdoses and the like.

Sadly the Fire Depts are really picking up the slack from Ambulance NB not only in Moncton but across the province. Paramedics are so short staffed and often tied up on other calls or in hospitals trying to offload patients that Fire is being asked to deal with medical/psyc/social issues that paramedics should be managing.

If Ambulance NB was free to fill positions based on seniority rather than requiring half of the positions in EVERY base to be bilingual the staffing issue would be less urgent. It is not the whole answer but certainly part of it.

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think the answer is "perhaps not."

Even with the help of the Riverview and Dieppe fire departments, I think things would be very problematic. Perhaps we should start planning for the future fire fighting needs of the city (and metro area) now...........

Issue 1: if there is a highrise fire, the NFPA standard is 43 firefighters on the INITIAL assignment. Meaning when things inevitably go sideways, it's more.

Moncton has 21 on shift. Riverview, 4 to 6 depending on the day, and Dieppe.. 8.

You can't expect 3 municipalities to dump their entire organizations into fighting a fire, and then put a pause on every other response while they're at it.
The city gets between 20 and 40 calls for service a day.

Problematic is an understatement.

Issue 2: if there is a fire in a 3 or 4 story walk up apartment building. The older style you see dotting the city.. the INITIAL assignment is 21. A house fire.. 15 or 16.

They are wildly understaffed. Literally 50 years behind. They get away with it because the guys and gals work their tails off.

Eventually the outcome will not be good.

And yes the argument of should they be going to a billion (exaggeration for effect) overdoses a shift is valid.

The answer is, yes. Their job is to save lives. They need the staffing and the resources to effectively and SAFELY do so.

This city has chipped away at the fire service for decades, and the result has arrived.

Someone is going to get hurt.

[MonctonRad]

Thamks for your detailed response.

It seems clear that if Moncton wants to play with the big boys, that they are going to have to step up their game in terms of firefighting capabilities.

Moncton will likely have ten 15+ storey buildings in 10 years time, and, if the momentum continues, perhaps 20-25 such buildings in 20 years time (I know this sounds fantastical, but is in fact probable). At some point, the city will have to boost the fire department staffing levels.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Thamks for your detailed response.

It seems clear that if Moncton wants to play with the big boys, that they are going to have to step up their game in terms of firefighting capabilities.

Moncton will likely have ten 15+ storey buildings in 10 years time, and, if the momentum continues, perhaps 20-25 such buildings in 20 years time (I know this sounds fantastical, but is in fact probable). At some point, the city will have to boost the fire department staffing levels.

Moncton's Skyline will look phenomenal in 10-20 years. IMO once we reach twenty plus 15+ storey buildings the city/downtown will look much bigger than it is population would suggest. Especially since all of these new buildings will be concentrated downtown and not sprawled out.

[C_Boy]

I think it's also really important to note that just like every other service, things need to be maintained and to adjust resources with the growth. The fire department has had the same daily minimum staffing as it did in the 1970s. Four additional firefighter reliever positions were added in 2024 (starting soon).

Unfortunately, there is no increase to the daily staffing... it just reduces overtime. No matter the type of service, you cant greatly increase the demand and keep things the same. Doubling the population in 50 years and maintaining the same resources is not working. We're just actually starting to hear about it is all...

[Sunnybrae]

Well, I would hope that the fire chief, Conrad Landry, would have communicated his staffing and equipment requirements to the city and performed his due diligence. So now, the city needs to confirm that they have also done their due diligence and show that they have a plan already in place.

[C_Boy]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Well, I would hope that the fire chief, Conrad Landry, would have communicated his staffing and equipment requirements to the city and performed his due diligence. So now, the city needs to confirm that they have also done their due diligence and show that they have a plan already in place.

Apparently there is an Underwriters report saying a huge need for increased staffing and resources but it doesn't seem to have been made public for some reason...

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by C_Boy

Apparently there is an Underwriters report saying a huge need for increased staffing and resources but it doesn't seem to have been made public for some reason...

One would think this would be available to the public through access to information act, since the taxpayers paid for it.

It made it to city management desk (read: finance.) so probably didn't make it to council

It would likely come out heavily redacted if it were available...

[adamuptownsj]

UNB looking to expand in Moncton, per AllNB. They don't want to conflict with UdeM so I presume it would be engineering/health-related? If they're eventually getting the boot from Ashford's 55 Lutz for redevelopment, and they are unlikely to build (article says they're talking to building owners), would 1222 Main make sense? Might be a little large, but the main floor could support retail, and you could probably jimmy student housing/amenities into the top couple floors. Ample parking to the rear.

[new kid in town]

Hopefully includes nursing program (RN and NP) expansion.

*Addendum: I initially read that as AIINB, which if it is, then perhaps that's their goal. But that's AllNB, right (lower case Ls)?

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

UNB looking to expand in Moncton, per AllNB. They don't want to conflict with UdeM so I presume it would be engineering/health-related? If they're eventually getting the boot from Ashford's 55 Lutz for redevelopment, and they are unlikely to build (article says they're talking to building owners), would 1222 Main make sense? Might be a little large, but the main floor could support retail, and you could probably jimmy student housing/amenities into the top couple floors. Ample parking to the rear.

Any idea what the student population could be if they were to do this?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

UNB looking to expand in Moncton, per AllNB. They don't want to conflict with UdeM so I presume it would be engineering/health-related? If they're eventually getting the boot from Ashford's 55 Lutz for redevelopment, and they are unlikely to build (article says they're talking to building owners), would 1222 Main make sense? Might be a little large, but the main floor could support retail, and you could probably jimmy student housing/amenities into the top couple floors. Ample parking to the rear.

If this is true, then this is huge news!!!

UNBM is currently located in the equivalent of an aging muffler shop on Assumption Blvd downtown.

Current UNBM programs are limited to a BN nursing degree for LPNs seeking to boost their credentials, A BSc program in medical imaging technology (in collaboration with UNBSJ), dietetic internships, and, clinical medical training in association with Dal Med located at UNBSJ. This includes 3rd & 4th year clinical clerkships, and a full family medicine residency training program. They have also recently developed a Moncton based residency in Internal Medicine. Residency rotations in other specialties are also available, including a recent agreement with UofT for neurosurgical residency rotations.

So, UNBM is entirely medical and health sciences related. Nothing else. The only anglophone alternative is Crandall, which has very limited course offerings, and only one professional program (education).

Moncton CMA is now approaching 190,000. About 2/3rds of the population is anglophone. That's about 126,000 people.

I dare you to find any other (predominantly anglophone) CMA in the federation with such poor infrastructure in anglophone tertiary level educational services.

I would not be too concerned about stepping on UdeM's toes. Their focus (rightfully so) is on being the prime educational resource for the provinces Acadian population. Although they do have a program to facilitate anglophone enrollment at UdeM, the simple truth is that the number of anglophones who take advantage of this is vanishingly small - probably no more than a few dozen students per year.

Moncton needs a full undergraduate campus of UNB. This includes basic core programs in faculties of arts, sciences and business administration. This would be the Moncton version of UNBSJ.

FULL STOP, MIC DROP!!!!!

An expansion in health sciences education is also needed. New Kid has alluded to this. I agree that the return of a full BN program to the Moncton Hospital is needed. Adding in NP training also makes sense. Future expansion in medical training at the Moncton Hospital could include further Moncton based residency programs. This is important because it is a well known fact that physicians tend to want to practice where they were trained. Having advanced medical education based in Moncton would be a huge advantage for the city!!!

Your idea of using 1222 Main as a downtown Moncton campus is an intriguing one. There is the potential of expanding this campus (either now or eventually) to include the lands between 1222 Main and the Avenir Centre. The campus would remain small and urban, but, is probably all that is necessary for the foreseeable future.

I do think however that a 2nd health sciences campus would also be necessary at the Moncton Hospital. This does not necessarily mean a big building project however. Medical education offices already exist at the Moncton Hospital. Medical training in the 3rd & 4th years of medical school, and, afterwards in residency is almost entirely clinical. No new classrooms would be needed. An upgrade in support areas would be modest. The BN and NP programs however would need to be repatriated from the muffler shop downtown. The BN program used to be located in the Professional Arts Building adjacent to the hospital. Why couldn't the program return to this location?

Bus routes could run directly from the downtown campus to the health sciences campus. It is a straight shot down Vaughan Harvey Blvd. It's almost perfect!

Can anyone with access to this AllNB article post additional information on the forum????

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Any idea what the student population could be if they were to do this?

It depends on what UNB has in mind. My vision of a full undergraduate campus and a separate health sciences campus at the Moncton Hospital probably would mean sbout 1200 students. This could grow with time.

[new kid in town]

Completely and heartily agree with MonctonRad's position. I think we also had a similar discussion in the past about this but anyway--it just makes total sense. Especially since Moncton is expected to still grow significantly in the coming years.

I think UNBM Nursing also does have the accelerated program for candidates from different Bachelor degrees shifting into nursing (on top of the LPN bridge, which I believe was exclusive to Saint John or Freddy as recent as 2022), but definitely the full BScN program is needed in the city.

Same sentiments about the overlap with UdeM. For example, their NP program is catered to francophone applicants. While I've been told by a UNB instructor for the accelerated BScN that there are placements here in Moncton for NP clinicals, the main classes are still based off of Freddy/Saint John. We are losing ground on primary healthcare providers in the city (again, still growing and growing fast!), and while NPs can't fully replace Family doctors, NPs can be a good support system at least--they do great jobs in the refugee clinics and clinics for the homeless like Salvus. Having them educated and trained locally would be fantastic!

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It depends on what UNB has in mind. My vision of a full undergraduate campus and a separate health sciences campus at the Moncton Hospital probably would mean sbout 1200 students. This could grow with time.

Thanks. The reason I was asking is because of the 1222 Main Street idea. It's very intriguing indeed. Depending on the scope of UNB's plans, it could eventually lead to an expansion into the adjacent lot and getting rid of that hideous old telegraph building. It could really improve this area and be a very nice downtown addition.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Thanks. The reason I was asking is because of the 1222 Main Street idea. It's very intriguing indeed. Depending on the scope of UNB's plans, it could eventually lead to an expansion into the adjacent lot and getting rid of that hideous old telegraph building. It could really improve this area and be a very nice downtown addition.

The new UBCO campus under construction in Kelowna will be entirely located in a single 40 storey tower in the downtown core of the city. Toronto Metropolitan University is located in a series of closely adjacent office buildings in the Young/Dundas area of downtown Toronto.

There are precedents out there for entirely urban downtown campuses.

There is enough room around 1222 Main for 2-3 closely adjacent academic buildings.

[adamuptownsj]

I would not be too concerned about stepping on UdeM's toes. Their focus (rightfully so) is on being the prime educational resource for the provinces Acadian population. Although they do have a program to facilitate anglophone enrollment at UdeM, the simple truth is that the number of anglophones who take advantage of this is vanishingly small - probably no more than a few dozen students per year.

The UNB spokesman indicated this was a priority.

On another thread, someone mentioned the telegraph building and lot (https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?v...n&pan=06385686) has a VERY steep asking price. Even without it, you can get a lot jammed into 70,000 square feet @ 1222. I doubt UNB wants to tackle new construction with ongoing projects in Fredericton and Saint John. I wonder if they're in touch with Crombie?

Any other potential good fits near downtown? Maybe old Moncton High?

[Monctoncore]

Old Moncton high yes, but I also feel like the Assumption building must have availability. I feel like Covid plus the courthouse leaving create vacancy.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

The UNB spokesman indicated this (not stepping on UdeM's toes) was a priority.

I don't understand this.

UdeM (despite it's name) is not the university for Moncton. It is the provincial francophone university, just like UNB is the provincial anglophone university.

There is no overlap. There is no stepping on toes. The mandates are entirely different.

I could see it in terms of not recreating a major comprehensive university campus with multiple professional degree programs like UNBF and UdeM(M).

A primarily undergraduate campus, with an affiliated health sciences campus should not be a threat to UdeM.

And, a health sciences campus at UNBM should not be a threat to the medical school at UNBSJ. Medical training in the province is already distributed. The first two years of medical school are based at UNBSJ. That will not change. Third and fourth year medical training however is distributed around the province, including at the Moncton Hospital. Between 3rd & 4th year clinical clerks, the family practice residency program based at the Moncton Hospital and other specialty residents, there are already 25-30 medical learners at the Moncton Hospital at any one time. I could see some expansion of this in the future, but, the actual medical school itself would remain affiliated with UNBSJ.