The Next Nashville? Billions In New Investment Could Put Baltimore Back On The Map

[DCReid]

"Huge Baltimore real estate and infrastructure projects are coinciding to transform some of the most recognizable parts of the city and pump billions of dollars into the local economy...Baltimore County Chamber of Commerce CEO Brent Howard also said he thinks the city can be the next hot market.

“Just seeing the continued growth of our area, we think Baltimore, as he said, can be the next Nashville or the next Austin,” he said. “It has everything you need in terms of citizenship, in terms of assets, in terms of climate, we’re on the water. Even proximity to other cities: We’re right here next to D.C., we’re a skip from New York.”"

https://www.bisnow.com/baltimore/new...essures-124825


Question is, why Baltimore lags compared to other Northeast 'legacy' cities, but I supposed you can say the same about Newark, NJ and Hartford, CTn

[bdurk]

I don't know about this one lol. Baltimore is going to need A LOT of work to make it a decent city imo. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because, coming from Philly, I know cities get a lot of unwarranted hate, but Baltimore was still really disappointing when I visited. The Inner Harbor is great but their downtown is dead. No shops or businesses when you get more than a block or two away from the Inner Harbor. I hope it succeeds and I will be rooting for it but I highly doubt it's the next Nashville or Austin.

[Crawford]

Bizarre article. Baltimore shares nothing with Nashville.

By many measures Baltimore is a much more successful metro than Nashville, but this article is referring to hype and Sunbelt-style growth. Obviously Baltimore has neither.

[Notonfoodstamps]

Originally Posted by bdurk

I don't know about this one lol. Baltimore is going to need A LOT of work to make it a decent city imo. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because, coming from Philly, I know cities get a lot of unwarranted hate, but Baltimore was still really disappointing when I visited. The Inner Harbor is great but their downtown is dead. No shops or businesses when you get more than a block or two away from the Inner Harbor. I hope it succeeds and I will be rooting for it but I highly doubt it's the next Nashville or Austin.

Local here.

Don’t know the last time you visited but to the point of the article, there is in fact a LOT of work being done as we speak (something like +$6 billion dollars of investment within a mile or two of downtown)

That being said comparing smaller boomtown sunbelt cities like Nashville or Austin to an old larger legacy city like Baltimore also never pencils out well subjectively.

[BnaBreaker]

Let me just come right out and save all the folks that would inevitably say this the breath and effort. Baltimore was around long before Nashville and Austin. It is larger and more successful both historically and currently by a number of important metrics. It's urban bones, transit system, and harbor have no equivalent in Nashville or Austin. Those cities should be so lucky to even be mentioned in the same sentence as Baltimore. We are all aware.

There! Now that we've gotten that out of the way, you can discuss without feeling that northeast/rust belt urbanist pressure to point out the obvious.

[bdurk]

Originally Posted by Notonfoodstamps

Local here.

Don’t know the last time you visited but to the point of the article, there is in fact a LOT of work being done as we speak (something like +$6 billion dollars of investment within a mile or two of downtown)

That being said comparing smaller boomtown sunbelt cities like Nashville or Austin to an old larger legacy city like Baltimore also never pencils out well subjectively.

I actually visited two weekends ago but to be fair I didn't explore too much. I saw the new "Sail" project for the Inner Harbor online and also believe I've heard about the transit project but I would love to look into the other investments you're talking about. I'm not trying to undermine Baltimore, maybe I need to explore more I just wasn't impressed with what I saw. I would be very open to recommendations on which neighborhoods to check out and where to look for future projects.

[mhays]

"Explosively-growing party town" is probably not in the cards. But "quickly-infilling, trendy Wa-Bos corridor city" might be in reach. Think the Boston or DC model.

There are already some great neighborhoods, and a little momentum outside of those could go a long way.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Question is, why Baltimore lags compared to other Northeast 'legacy' cities, but I supposed you can say the same about Newark, NJ and Hartford, CTn

Too much competition within a relatively small area. You've got the cities of Boston, NYC, Philly, and DC all within about the same distance as SF to LA.

[iheartthed]

Seems inevitable that Baltimore is on the cusp of returning to growth. It is the only BosWash corridor city of over 100k in population that didn't grow between 2000 and 2020. The only other city in the corridor that has even remotely struggled to grow over that time is Hartford, which grew slightly between 2000 and 2010 but lost population between 2010 and 2020.

City (2020 pop.) by growth between 2000 and 2020

• New York, NY (8,804,190): 9.9%
• Philadelphia, PA (1,603,797): 5.7%
• Washington, DC (689,545): 20.5%
• Boston, MA (675,647): 14.7%
• Baltimore, MD (585,708): -10.1%
• Newark, NJ (311,549): 13.9%
• Jersey City (292,449): 21.8%
• Arlington, VA (238,643): 26.0%
• Yonkers, NY (211,569): 7.9%
• Worcester, MA (206,518): 19.6%
• Providence, RI (190,934): 10.0%
• Alexandria, VA (159,467): 24.3%
• Bridgeport, CT (148,654): 6.5%
• Elizabeth, NJ (137,298): 13.9%
• Stamford, CT (135,470): 15.7%
• New Haven, CT (134,023): 8.4%
• Lakewood, NJ (135,158): 123.9%
• Hartford, CT (121,054): -0.4%
• Cambridge, MA (118,403): 16.8%
• Lowell, MA (115,554): 9.9%
• Waterbury, CT (114,403): 6.6%
• Edison, NJ (107,588): 10.1%

[hipster duck]

Comparing Baltimore to Austin or Nashville seems very far-fetched. If anything, the closest analogy to Baltimore that I can think of is Detroit:

- deindustrialized blue collar city on the wrong side of the Taft-Hartley act
- there's a lot of wealth and a lot of old money, but it's all in the suburbs
- the poor inner city is very black, but there's a significant black middle and upper middle class in the suburbs
- Oakland county (MI) and Howard county (MD) seem like analogues.

So, on that note, I could see a Detroit-style selective, micro-gentrification of the areas that have the best bones (unlike Detroit, Baltimore never lost this really), but I don't see a Nashville phenomenon where developers spontaneously start building box homes and townhouses for professionals all over former vacant lots.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by bdurk

I don't know about this one lol. Baltimore is going to need A LOT of work to make it a decent city imo. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because, coming from Philly, I know cities get a lot of unwarranted hate, but Baltimore was still really disappointing when I visited. The Inner Harbor is great but their downtown is dead. No shops or businesses when you get more than a block or two away from the Inner Harbor. I hope it succeeds and I will be rooting for it but I highly doubt it's the next Nashville or Austin.

From my experience the shops, bars, etc are in this area, Fells Point. Also it was pretty packed during my visits:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8SmhLuD2ew54dQBe6

[xzmattzx]

I would say Raleigh is the next Nashville, if it's about big economic development and all

[Crawford]

Raleigh has no glamour/tourist hype. It was booming before Nashville, really. And it attracts a different crowd.

SAS is the big fish there. Biggest private software company on earth. Also some gaming companies, defense companies. Lots of nerds.

[Notonfoodstamps]

Originally Posted by bdurk

I actually visited two weekends ago but to be fair I didn't explore too much. I saw the new "Sail" project for the Inner Harbor online and also believe I've heard about the transit project but I would love to look into the other investments you're talking about. I'm not trying to undermine Baltimore, maybe I need to explore more I just wasn't impressed with what I saw. I would be very open to recommendations on which neighborhoods to check out and where to look for future projects.

The “sail” is part of the Harbor Place development. The zoning referendum goes into vote in November so they can build the sail, a 11 story office building and a twin 32 + 25 story apartment buildings in the old pavilion foot prints.

The RedLine is going through final voting phases on type/route and will give the city E-W mass transit (99% it will be semi-grade separated LRT)

Port Covington is 1.5 miles south and is essentially going to become the cities secondary CBD (if you don’t count Harbor East/Point. Not lively atm due to it being 24/7 constitution zone right now but there’s like 15-20 establishments and ~1500 housing units are opening between now and end of 2025. When it’s all said and done it will be like ~14 million sq/ft.

Harbor Point is finishing up phase 3/4. Final phase has a 500/400/300’ triplet set of mixed use skyscrapers that are set to break ground late next year. These are to the immediate east of the Inner Harbor/Aquarium/etc..

Perkins square is to the immediate east of Little Italy and is complete mixed use-redo of former housing projects. Nothing glitzy but very much needed to make the greater downtown area cohesive, safe and walkable.

Howard Street cooridor is on the west side of greater down and has several hundred millions dollars of investment pouring in (refurbishes vs. new construction). Has the potential to be downtown premier nightlife area if done right.

Penn Station 1.5 miles north of DT and the immediate area around the station has a slew of projects approved/prepped for ground breaking.

Harbor East/Point, Hampden, Mt. Vernon, Charles Village, Federal Hill, Canton, Greektown, Remington & Fells Point are neighborhoods that I recommend people to go to. Downtown/Inner Harbor is if anything, one of the cities weaker areas.

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threa...post-188995583

Baltimores thread is the most viewed/updated on the entire site.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Raleigh has no glamour/tourist hype. It was booming before Nashville, really. And it attracts a different crowd.

SAS is the big fish there. Biggest private software company on earth. Also some gaming companies, defense companies. Lots of nerds.

Austin didn't really have any tourist hype until about 15 years ago

[JManc]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Austin didn't really have any tourist hype until about 15 years ago

Austin has been the "Live music capital of the world" for decades but it was more subdued until the tech bros showed up.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Raleigh has no glamour/tourist hype. It was booming before Nashville, really. And it attracts a different crowd.

SAS is the big fish there. Biggest private software company on earth. Also some gaming companies, defense companies. Lots of nerds.

This. Raleigh has been a boom town for decades.

None of the North Carolina cities are particularly interesting, even if they are nice places to live, and I think that's by design tbh. I think North Carolina is aiming for the "we want to be a nice place to live" crowd, not the "we want to have fun" crowd. And I'm okay with that. I just wish it would turn into a blue state vis a vis Virginia and Colorado, already. Seems long overdue given demographic migration.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

City (2020 pop.) by growth between 2000 and 2020

• New York, NY (8,804,190): 9.9%
• Philadelphia, PA (1,603,797): 5.7%
• Washington, DC (689,545): 20.5%
• Boston, MA (675,647): 14.7%
• Baltimore, MD (585,708): -10.1%
• Newark, NJ (311,549): 13.9%
• Jersey City (292,449): 21.8%
• Arlington, VA (238,643): 26.0%
• Yonkers, NY (211,569): 7.9%
• Worcester, MA (206,518): 19.6%
• Providence, RI (190,934): 10.0%
• Alexandria, VA (159,467): 24.3%
• Bridgeport, CT (148,654): 6.5%
• Elizabeth, NJ (137,298): 13.9%
• Stamford, CT (135,470): 15.7%
• New Haven, CT (134,023): 8.4%
• Lakewood, NJ (135,158): 123.9%
• Hartford, CT (121,054): -0.4%
• Cambridge, MA (118,403): 16.8%
• Lowell, MA (115,554): 9.9%
• Waterbury, CT (114,403): 6.6%
• Edison, NJ (107,588): 10.1%

Whoa.

Baltimore really is "the rustbelt of bos-wash".

I hadn't fully appreciated how out of step it is with all of its peers.

[C.]

City (2020 pop.) by growth between 2000 and 2020

• New York, NY (8,804,190): 9.9%
• Philadelphia, PA (1,603,797): 5.7%
• Washington, DC (689,545): 20.5%
• Boston, MA (675,647): 14.7%
• Baltimore, MD (585,708): -10.1%
• Newark, NJ (311,549): 13.9%
• Jersey City (292,449): 21.8%
• Arlington, VA (238,643): 26.0%
• Yonkers, NY (211,569): 7.9%
• Worcester, MA (206,518): 19.6%
• Providence, RI (190,934): 10.0%
• Alexandria, VA (159,467): 24.3%
• Bridgeport, CT (148,654): 6.5%
• Elizabeth, NJ (137,298): 13.9%
• Stamford, CT (135,470): 15.7%
• New Haven, CT (134,023): 8.4%
• Lakewood, NJ (135,158): 123.9%
• Hartford, CT (121,054): -0.4%
• Cambridge, MA (118,403): 16.8%
• Lowell, MA (115,554): 9.9%
• Waterbury, CT (114,403): 6.6%
• Edison, NJ (107,588): 10.1%

Lakewood is creeping up the list. Baltimore is on the verge of turning around. It's just 40 years behind everyone else.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by C.

Lakewood is creeping up the list.

Lakewood more than doubled in population since 2000.

Originally Posted by C.

Baltimore is on the verge of turning around. It's just 40 years behind everyone else.

Baltimore was still losing a lot of people in the previous decade but the turnaround will probably happen abruptly, similar to Washington's turnaround. Washington bottomed out at just about the population Baltimore was at in 2020.