Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[kool maudit]

I find people over here generally think Canada has "a French part" and that the situation is analogous to Switzerland. The whole history with Anglo-Montrealers throws them off. A lot of people would probably think Leonard Cohen's first language is somehow French, if they thought about it.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I find people over here generally think Canada has "a French part" and that the situation is analogous to Switzerland. The whole history with Anglo-Montrealers throws them off. A lot of people would probably think Leonard Cohen's first language is somehow French, if they thought about it.

Confuse them further by pointing out that Quebec's best-selling author is an Anglophone.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I find people over here generally think Canada has "a French part" and that the situation is analogous to Switzerland. The whole history with Anglo-Montrealers throws them off. A lot of people would probably think Leonard Cohen's first language is somehow French, if they thought about it.

Makes sense. I actually always thought other bilingual jurisdictions, especially European ones where people are multilngual, were actually bilingual and we were a weird fake bilingual country. In fact Switzerland is if anything less bilinigual. When you cross the border in Switzerland the train crew changes and they very reluctanltly provide service in German and especially Italian. In Belgium it's even more pronounced.

[MolsonExport]

Brussells (Bruxelles/Brussel) is in historic Flanders (Dutch-speaking Belgium; it is also the capital of Flanders), yet it the lingua franca is French.

The service that I received in Brugge (Bruges) in French was utterly dripping with resentment, until they found out I was from Quebec, and suddenly the French service was fabulous.

[1overcosc]

The Laurentian elite in Canada like to think of Canada as a geographically comprehensive bilingual country, but in recent decades we're shifting to more of a Belgium or Switzerland like model when it comes to economy & society. Government lags behind and still clings to the bilingual country myth.

[MolsonExport]

The Belgium model is hardly a good one; the dislike of these two halves is palpable. I hope we never go that route, although some here probably do.

Switzerland avoids strife largely because they are so much more wealthy than any of their bordering nations. Being a parasite on other countries' misfortunes is evidently a good gig, financially-speaking.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I have two friends who are American but moved to Montreal as students and eventually immigrated. They're both Canadian citizens now. They both speak excellent French and until recently had spent their entire careers working for Quebec companies that operate in French (often with many French-from-France employees). Now they both have jobs that are based in the ROC and they're experiencing real culture shock in dealing with English Canadians. It's a remarkably different working environment to Quebec. People are conflict-averse to a fault, passive aggressive and generally unwilling to express anything directly.

Make of that what you will. Personally I find it very interesting and a decent reflection of my own experience of working with ROCers (given that I've spent my entire adult life either in Quebec or overseas). As an English Canadian myself I'm able to play the game and understand the nuances of how everyone is operating, but my American friends seem a bit taken aback.

The culture you're describing is most pervasive in Canada's oligopolies, especially in Toronto's big banks (my SO absolutely detested the work culture entrenched there.. said it's very suffocating compared to Desjardins or even Banque Nationale), insurers and telecoms like Rogers. Even the Anglo dominated companies in Montreal like Air Canada, CN, BCE/Bell Media has the same passive-aggressive conflict adverse culture.

It reminded me a bit of the work culture in the UK, Hong Kong and Singapore, which I guess is almost like a British colonial hangover. Switching back to working with Americans can be a quite a breath of fresh air and is my preference these days.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc;10232018[B

]The Laurentian elite in Canada like to think of Canada as a geographically comprehensive bilingual country,[/B] but in recent decades we're shifting to more of a Belgium or Switzerland like model when it comes to economy & society. Government lags behind and still clings to the bilingual country myth.

Have you a source for that? I can't see any basis for it, as Canada is not a bilingual country and never has been. What the GofC "clings to" is official bilingualism, a very different matter.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

The culture you're describing is most pervasive in Canada's oligopolies, especially in Toronto's big banks (my SO absolutely detested the work culture entrenched there.. said it's very suffocating compared to Desjardins or even Banque Nationale), insurers and telecoms like Rogers. Even the Anglo dominated companies in Montreal like Air Canada, CN, BCE/Bell Media has the same passive-aggressive conflict adverse culture.

It reminded me a bit of the work culture in the UK, Hong Kong and Singapore, which I guess is almost like a British colonial hangover. Switching back to working with Americans can be a quite a breath of fresh air and is my preference these days.

Aka, reserve, couth, civility.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Have you a source for that? I can't see any basis for it, as Canada is not a bilingual country and never has been. What the GofC "clings to" is official bilingualism, a very different matter.

Yes and French Immersion being well entrencehd in many parts of the country means even if they don't end up as bilingual adults they have a basica abilty to speak French. The Quebec act set the foundation for basic acceptance of catholisicm and French language rights and Confederation improved that but pre quiet revolution it feels like this was an English country with French speakers tolerated in private life only. You can see French added to monuments erected well into the 1900s for example. I don't know if things are improving but we don't seem to be going backwards on many measures.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Confuse them further by pointing out that Quebec's best-selling author is an Anglophone.

Who is that?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Brussells (Bruxelles/Brussel) is in historic Flanders (Dutch-speaking Belgium; it is also the capital of Flanders), yet it the lingua franca is French.

The service that I received in Brugge (Bruges) in French was utterly dripping with resentment, until they found out I was from Quebec, and suddenly the French service was fabulous.

I find it odd that they wouldn't have immediately detected that you weren't Belgian from your accent.

[New Brisavoine]

Beautiful documentary about Autumn in the forests of Québec on French TV tonight by the way.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Who is that?

Louise Penny, author of the Inspector Gamache series.

[New Brisavoine]

Never heard of her. Not famous here.

Here the most famous writer from Québec is probably the recently deceased Hubert Reeves.

[Acajack]

Daniel Lavoie is one of the most internationally successful artists to come out of Manitoba but more than 95% of the people in the province have never heard of him.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Aka, reserve, couth, civility.

It's perfectly normal to appreciate that which one is accustomed to, and to consider it to be normality.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Daniel Lavoie is one of the most internationally successful artists to come out of Manitoba but more than 95% of the people in the province have never heard of him.

Miriam Toews well known inside and out.

Quebec is generally outpeforming English Canada in the arts but literature and even non-fiction writing seems to be something where English Canada holds their own.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Miriam Toews well known inside and out.

Quebec is generally outpeforming English Canada in the arts but literature and even non-fiction writing seems to be something where English Canada holds their own.

Correct. That and CanCon rock!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The Laurentian elite in Canada like to think of Canada as a geographically comprehensive bilingual country, but in recent decades we're shifting to more of a Belgium or Switzerland like model when it comes to economy & society. Government lags behind and still clings to the bilingual country myth.

The trend now seems to be more English and less French everywhere. What you describe was more true 10-20 years ago, when each of the two language groups seemed to be soldifying their bastions. Including French in Québec.

Now English is making inroads in Québec again.