The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[cdnguys]

[IMG] how to solve equations with subscripts[/IMG]

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Interesting take on residential development costs in the US. I wonder how the Canadian numbers would compare?

https://willowdaleequity.com/blog/co...tment-complex/

I'd love to see some soaring 20-30 floor luxury glass towers overlooking the harbour but the question is who is going to rent the units at 2.5-4K a month or buy the condos at 700K-1.5M?

I'm guessing developers are building what will rent and that appears to be mostly 4-6 floor stick built structures with a decent but relatively moderate level of fit, finish and features.

Horse for courses and all that.

Who would? Me. I own a house in East Saint John, but also rent an apartment at The Residence at Queens Marque in Halifax for 6000 a month. There’s a lot of people from NB living in there and there’s quite a waiting list. 3000 would be a steal. Depending on the amenities included. Contrary to what people continuously seem to think. Not all people from Saint John are destitute and living a sad life.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Who would? Me. I own a house in East Saint John, but also rent an apartment at The Residence at Queens Marque in Halifax for 6000 a month. There’s a lot of people from NB living in there and there’s quite a waiting list. 3000 would be a steal. Depending on the amenities included. Contrary to what people continuously seem to think. Not all people from Saint John are destitute and living a sad life.

There is A LOT of money in Saint John! Rothesay is one of the richest postal codes in Canada up there with Westmount. For years people say how poor everyone in SJ is and I don’t say anything. We do have poor people, much like most cities. There are hundreds of tradespeople alone that work shutdowns plus regular job at industrial sites and make $300-400k annually. Just look at the cars you see in the roads now, tons of premium vehicles.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There is A LOT of money in Saint John! Rothesay is one of the richest postal codes in Canada up there with Westmount. For years people say how poor everyone in SJ is and I don’t say anything. We do have poor people, much like most cities. There are hundreds of tradespeople alone that work shutdowns plus regular job at industrial sites and make $300-400k annually. Just look at the cars you see in the roads now, tons of premium vehicles.

You are 100% correct. Thank you for being educated and not painting our entire city with the same mundane sad assumptions. We need more people like you in GSJ

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Who would? Me. I own a house in East Saint John, but also rent an apartment at The Residence at Queens Marque in Halifax for 6000 a month. There’s a lot of people from NB living in there and there’s quite a waiting list. 3000 would be a steal. Depending on the amenities included. Contrary to what people continuously seem to think. Not all people from Saint John are destitute and living a sad life.

Oh, I'm certainly not saying those people don't exist. I'm just suggesting the number of those people in the market for a luxury highrise unit in SJ probably isn't large enough to see a number of such buildings constructed and filled.

People might not be in the market for such a unit because of finances but for many it may be that they chose other options.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Oh, I'm certainly not saying those people don't exist. I'm just suggesting the number of those people in the market for a luxury highrise unit in SJ probably isn't large enough to see a number of such buildings constructed and filled.

People might not be in the market for such a unit because of finances but for many it may be that they chose other options.

Why would a high rise have to be exclusively luxury units? It could be stratified with luxury units on the upper floors, and a mix of mid range and even affordable units below.

I’m not sure why you think “the numbers” aren’t high enough in Saint John to see any new high rises in Saint John constructed and filled, when Moncton has at least five residential high rises on the near term horizon. Contrary to what some seem to believe regarding Saint John and Moncton, our two cities are still absolutely demographically comparable.

I don’t think demographics are to blame for why Saint John hasn’t seen a single 10+ storey residential building constructed in almost 40 years, but rather, it’s more to do with policy differences and strategy. Moncton has prioritized building up height and density, while Saint John has continued to embrace urban sprawl, and continuing to enforce restrictive zoning bylaws limiting building height.

Our building codes and zoning bylaws should be updated to reflect contemporary standards in urban design and construction. Mass timber should be allowed up to 18 storeys (and possibly higher one day), as construction advances have made building up that high with wood safe, sustainable, and economical. We’re a province dominated by forests with a strong forestry sector, it’s logical to make wood a bigger part of our housing solution. What’s not logical, is the 8 or 10 storey limit on mass timber construction, which just incentivizes developers to build 6 storey wood framed buildings instead.

Saint John’s zoning bylaws regarding building height regulations are overly burdensome and not helping us attract developers to come build mid rises and high rises here in Saint John. Our zoning bylaws should be updated to allow for more height and density, to give our city a better chance to attract that type of investment.

Again, if not a single 10+ storey residential building has been built in almost 40 years, our strategy, regulations, and vision come into question.

[ColSJ]

Hey CDNguys! Thank you so much for posting pictures of the development in Saint John! It reminded me of the days when this thread was used for its intended purpose. Most times I come on here it's either someone calling some incompetent or someone promoting 30-storey buildings.

Anywho... nice to see some real projects on display!

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Why would a high rise have to be exclusively luxury units? It could be stratified with luxury units on the upper floors, and a mix of mid range and even affordable units below.

I’m not sure why you think “the numbers” aren’t high enough in Saint John to see any new high rises in Saint John constructed and filled, when Moncton has at least five residential high rises on the near term horizon. Contrary to what some seem to believe regarding Saint John and Moncton, our two cities are still absolutely demographically comparable.

I don’t think demographics are to blame for why Saint John hasn’t seen a single 10+ storey residential building constructed in almost 40 years, but rather, it’s more to do with policy differences and strategy. Moncton has prioritized building up height and density, while Saint John has continued to embrace urban sprawl, and continuing to enforce restrictive zoning bylaws limiting building height.

Our building codes and zoning bylaws should be updated to reflect contemporary standards in urban design and construction. Mass timber should be allowed up to 18 storeys (and possibly higher one day), as construction advances have made building up that high with wood safe, sustainable, and economical. We’re a province dominated by forests with a strong forestry sector, it’s logical to make wood a bigger part of our housing solution. What’s not logical, is the 8 or 10 storey limit on mass timber construction, which just incentivizes developers to build 6 storey wood framed buildings instead.

Saint John’s zoning bylaws regarding building height regulations are overly burdensome and not helping us attract developers to come build mid rises and high rises here in Saint John. Our zoning bylaws should be updated to allow for more height and density, to give our city a better chance to attract that type of investment.

Again, if not a single 10+ storey residential building has been built in almost 40 years, our strategy, regulations, and vision come into question.

Moncton and Saint John are not on the same field. Moncton area now has 60,000 more people than SJ and dollar wise and population increase wise is up there with Halifax, a city 3x its size. IMO we have to keep building a foundation of smaller and mid rise apartments until we get to that threshold where city starts to skyrocket - we are at 140,000 now so maybe in a five years when we reach 160,000.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Hey CDNguys! Thank you so much for posting pictures of the development in Saint John! It reminded me of the days when this thread was used for its intended purpose. Most times I come on here it's either someone calling some incompetent or someone promoting 30-storey buildings.

Anywho... nice to see some real projects on display!

Thanks I like to snap photos when I’m out!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Moncton and Saint John are not on the same field. Moncton area now has 60,000 more people than SJ and dollar wise and population increase wise is up there with Halifax, a city 3x its size. IMO we have to keep building a foundation of smaller and mid rise apartments until we get to that threshold where city starts to skyrocket - we are at 140,000 now so maybe in a five years when we reach 160,000.

Not even on the same field? Please. Moncton’s city proper population only passed Saint John’s in 2016 right? So like, not even a decade ago. I think the most recent population estimates put Saint John around 75,000 and Moncton over 90,000?

The two cities are absolutely demographically comparable, especially when talking about the city proper populations. Which is kind of what matters the most when talking about mid rise and high rise residential development within the more central areas of our city. The reality is Moncton is building residential high rises, while Saint John is not… yet.

Are you saying we should wait until we hit 160k as a CMA to start lessening height restrictions in the zoning bylaws? If so, that seems like an incredibly arbitrary threshold to wait around for. Lessening height restrictions within the bylaws is something we could and should be doing already.

I think it would be prudent to make changes now, and make Saint John more attractive and less regulatory burdensome to developers looking to build both high rises and taller mid rises. Imo, we need to build a bigger foundation of 10+ storey buildings to really start building up the skyline again and more positively improve our image as a city.

Perception matters, and I think Saint John and its leaders should try a little harder to avoid complacency, which seems to be a bit of a problem here in SJ.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Not even on the same field? Please. Moncton’s city proper population only passed Saint John’s in 2016 right? So like, not even a decade ago. I think the most recent population estimates put Saint John around 75,000 and Moncton over 90,000?

The two cities are absolutely demographically comparable, especially when talking about the city proper populations. Which is kind of what matters the most when talking about mid rise and high rise residential development within the more central areas of our city. The reality is Moncton is building residential high rises, while Saint John is not… yet.

Are you saying we should wait until we hit 160k as a CMA to start lessening height restrictions in the zoning bylaws? If so, that seems like an incredibly arbitrary threshold to wait around for. Lessening height restrictions within the bylaws is something we could and should be doing already.

I think it would be prudent to make changes now, and make Saint John more attractive and less regulatory burdensome to developers looking to build both high rises and taller mid rises. Imo, we need to build a bigger foundation of 10+ storey buildings to really start building up the skyline again and more positively improve our image as a city.

Perception matters, and I think Saint John and its leaders should try a little harder to avoid complacency, which seems to be a bit of a problem here in SJ.

There are no issues with height restrictions. If you want to go higher you apply for a variance. IOL, Percy and Fundy Quay all got one. Even Moncton has to grant variances. Best to do it piece meal so you don’t have buildings go up that conflict with surrounding area. Smythe Street area - no prob 35+ stories. Should we do that in Trinity Royal - no.

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[cdnguys]

Some pics from their Facebook site in case you haven’t seen their new space. Without a doubt Saint John is the leader in Atlantic Canada when it comes to beautiful, inspiring spaces. I say that as a former Haligonian. And luxury apartments on the upper floors to boot

[IMG] [/IMG]

[MonctonRad]

Is that a Jackalope I see there?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There are no issues with height restrictions. If you want to go higher you apply for a variance. IOL, Percy and Fundy Quay all got one. Even Moncton has to grant variances. Best to do it piece meal so you don’t have buildings go up that conflict with surrounding area. Smythe Street area - no prob 35+ stories. Should we do that in Trinity Royal - no.

No issues at all? Can’t say I agree, especially not when the height limit for mid rise zoned areas is around 5 storeys, and 10 storeys for high rise zoned areas. Raising those limits would be a step in the right direction… even the tiny city of Bathurst recently doubled the height limits in their bylaws. Saint John following suit and upping the limits according to the bylaws would send the right signal to developers. Afiak, Moncton has higher limits for mid rises and high rises according to their bylaws.

As for Trinity Royal, 30 storey high rises might be out of place, but a few strategically placed 10 storeys wouldn’t be, especially not on a case by case basis.

If the provincial building code limits mass timber to 10 storeys, that should be updated. There’s no way BC, with far more forest fires than NB, would up the limit to 18 storeys on mass timber construction if it was a fire issue… we should up ours to allow 18 storey mass timber too.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Some pics from their Facebook site in case you haven’t seen their new space. Without a doubt Saint John is the leader in Atlantic Canada when it comes to beautiful, inspiring spaces. I say that as a former Haligonian. And luxury apartments on the upper floors to boot

Hopscotch is definitely in a league of its own, as are many places in Saint John. Haven’t been to their new spot yet, but it looks great… haven’t had a wee dram of Oban in far too long!

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Is that a Jackalope I see there?

Yes I think you are right

[cdnguys]

Grabbed the latest StatCan employment survey report for May 2024 for NB cities. For some reason they don’t include Fredericton. What’s noteworthy is our labour force grew by a whopping 9,700 (13.8%) in one year! Our participation and employment rates jumped too. Our population grew by 400 in the month of May and 3500 for the rolling 12 months. So that should put current population around 143,000. Hoping that this huge increase in labour force will be followed by a pop in population.