The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Are Mitsubishi's popular across Canada?

their Outlander PHEV has become very common here

I see a lot of the Outlanders here but I'm not sure what proportion are hybrids. Its not a vehicle I personally find very interesting or attractive so I don't pay that much attention lol.

[trueviking]

^ are there interesting and attractive cars these days?...they all look the same to me.

[Truenorth00]

For all the talk of declining demand (more like reduction in demand growth), G&M doesn't seem to see this in Canada.

No sign of an EV backlash among vehicle buyers in Canada

These are difficult days for electric vehicles. Tesla sales are tanking and other automakers are scaling back how many EVs they plan to build this year.

There is one bright spot in the industry, even if its not going to move the global needle on EV demand: Canadian consumers are still flocking to low-emission vehicles.

In the first quarter new vehicle registrations of EVs, which includes full electrics and plug-in hybrids, grew 53 per cent compared with the same quarter last year even as new registrations of non-electrics slowed, according to Statistics Canada.

Canadians registered 47,000 new EVs last quarter, representing 11.3 per cent of all vehicle registrations. That share, which can be volatile from quarter to quarter, is down from a peak of 12.3 per cent in the third quarter of 2023, but still up from 8.6 per cent a year ago.

....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ers-in-canada/

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

For all the talk of declining demand (more like reduction in demand growth), G&M doesn't seem to see this in Canada.



https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ers-in-canada/

Let's see where they would land without subsidies....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Let's see where they would land without subsidies....

In deep trouble. That's why they need protection from Chinese EVs. For most of these companies 20% or more of their sales are from the Chinese market. Getting locked of that market and then getting a beating everywhere but Europe and North America isn't exactly a formula for success in the kind run.

[whatnext]

I found out why my local VW dealer was having the EV blitz last weekend- after June 18 EVs costing over $50k no longer qualified for the provincial rebate, so the ID4 would no longer come with gov't cash on the hood.

B.C. lowers rebate cap on electric vehicles, triggers industry backlash
On Tuesday, B.C.'s $4,000 rebate for vehicles deemed electric 'cars' was restricted to models that cost $50,000 or less — a $5,000 reduction from the previous cap.
Stefan Labbé
about 19 hours ago

The heads of major Canadian automobile industry associations slammed the B.C. government Tuesday over what they claim was a unilateral decision to cut about 75 per cent electric and hybrid models from its rebate program.

B.C.'s CleanBC Go Electric rebate provides up to $4,000 to qualifying zero-emission vehicles (ZEV), which include plug-in hybrids, battery electric and fuel cell-powered cars. But on Tuesday, the province dropped the maximum cost of qualifying vehicles in the “cars” category to $50,000 from the previous $55,000, confirmed Josie Osborne, Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation.

In a statement to Glacier Media, Osborne said the change was made to ensure rebates were targeted at middle-income families, and would push manufactures to lower their prices.

“With electric vehicle (EV) sales increasing faster than anticipated and currently at record levels, we needed to make adjustments to our CleanBC electric vehicle rebate program given available funding,” said the minister. ...

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/h...cklash-9103586

[Nouvellecosse]

I'm not sure why some people seem to obsess over the rebates as if they somehow prove that EVs aren't desirable on their own merits. The fact is, a like-for-like EV is still usually more expensive in terms of up-front cost compared to ICE vehicles. Which happens with all emerging technologies since prices come down over time as production ramps up but it isn't an instant process. So the subsidies only aim to help partially put them on equal footing. So I don't see why a subsidy that just helps put two products on equal footing somehow proves that people don't want the product on it's own merit. That would only apply if the subsidy caused a product to undercut another meaning that people mainly bought it because it was cheap. But such subsidies are rarely if ever enough to cause EVs to actually undercut a comparable ICE vehicle. Obviously an EV is likely to have lower lifetime cost, but that's part of the merits of the car, not unlike an ICE car with better than average fuel economy or maintenance costs.

[whatnext]

The other shoe about to drop...

Canada Prepares Potential Tariffs on Chinese EVs After US and EU Moves
Trudeau is under pressure to align trade policy with allies
China has a ‘state-directed policy of overcapacity’: minister
By Brian Platt
June 20, 2024 at 4:27 PM PDT
Updated on June 20, 2024 at 8:14 PM PDT

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government is preparing potential new tariffs on Chinese-made electric vehicles to align Canada with actions taken by the US and European Union, according to people familiar with the matter.

The government still has to make final decisions on how to proceed, but it’s likely to announce soon the start of public consultations on tariffs that would hit Chinese exports of EVs into Canada, according to officials who spoke on condition they not be identified.

Trudeau has been under increasing pressure at home and abroad to follow the lead of US President Joe Biden’s administration, which announced in May a plan to nearly quadruple tariffs on Chinese-manufactured electric vehicles, up to a final rate of 102.5%. The European Union said last week it plans to increase tariffs on Chinese EVs, taking those levies as high as 48% on some vehicles.

Western democracies are increasingly concerned about China’s overproduction of key goods, seeing it as an effort to dominate supply chains and undercut their own industries....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=x4rjnz06

[Truenorth00]

We have to align with the US. Don't think it's a huge deal in Canada and the US at the end of the day because we don't have a large presence of Chinese EVs.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

We have to align with the US. Don't think it's a huge deal in Canada and the US at the end of the day because we don't have a large presence of Chinese EVs.

They are TESLA's but Chinese EVs were a big portion of our 2023 sales. TESLA US factories were working flat out and those workers aren't unionezed so no a big lobbying force so doesn't seem to be much US pressure.

The China backlash could hurt us as they will pick us off as the weakness link to avoid Australia and other small players where the Chinese home countires have prescene matching these barriers.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

They are TESLA's but Chinese EVs were a big portion of our 2023 sales. TESLA US factories were working flat out and those workers aren't unionized so no a big lobbying force so doesn't seem to be much US pressure.

Tesla can and will adjust. New stats also that all the gloom headlines about declining EV sales is mostly a Tesla story. So maybe they'll have room coming up in North America.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The China backlash could hurt us as they will pick us off as the weakness link to avoid Australia and other small players where the Chinese home countries have presence matching these barriers.

You know Chinese EVs are flooding into Australia right now? Also given that we send China resources and they send us finished goods, I don't think we have anything to worry about. It's about time we started letting them know we can't be pushed around. Also sick of Canadian industry ever ready to lobby against domestic interests to sell to China.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

They are TESLA's but Chinese EVs were a big portion of our 2023 sales. TESLA US factories were working flat out and those workers aren't unionezed so no a big lobbying force so doesn't seem to be much US pressure.

The China backlash could hurt us as they will pick us off as the weakness link to avoid Australia and other small players where the Chinese home countires have prescene matching these barriers.

Key difference: Australia has no domestic auto industry.

[rdaner]

I am curious if there is a change in the levels of emissions with the rapid rise of
EVs? I know that nationally they are approaching 8-9% but in certain markets it is higher.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by rdaner

I am curious if there is a change in the levels of emissions with the rapid rise of EVs? I know that nationally they are approaching 8-9% but in certain markets it is higher.

1) Sales =\= road fleet mix. There's a lag of at least 5 years between the sales mix and the mix of the cars on the road. So we definitely don't have 8-9% of cars as EVs on the road.

2) Population growth is continuing to increase total car sales and the total fleet. So it's the likely that the absolute number of gas cars have increased in Canada.

All that said, Canada's total oil consumption does seem to have flatlined after a peak of 108 million tonnes in 2007. A combination of electrification and higher fuel efficiency with ICEVs seems to have offset general growth in oil demand from population growth. I suspect the real gains will come over the next 10 years as a substantial number of transit projects come online and electrification gains ground beyond personal vehicles. Electric transit buses and delivery vehicles will do more than Tesla ever will.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Tesla can and will adjust. New stats also that all the gloom headlines about declining EV sales is mostly a Tesla story. So maybe they'll have room coming up in North America.



You know Chinese EVs are flooding into Australia right now? Also given that we send China resources and they send us finished goods, I don't think we have anything to worry about. It's about time we started letting them know we can't be pushed around. Also sick of Canadian industry ever ready to lobby against domestic interests to sell to China.

Yes but we also don't have anything to protect as it's a TESLA story so far. Do we care if our TESLAs are made in China or America? Medium term we have to get on board or risk a backlash. Certainly we aren't going to be get to be included in the US subsidy but give our subsidy to non North American imports.

[whatnext]

I doubt this will have much effect on VW's planned Canadian investment but...

Rivian to Form EV Venture With $5 Billion From Volkswagen
German carmaker gets access to Rivian’s technology for its EVs
Rivian shares surge in late trading after announcement
By Kara Carlson and Keith Naughton
June 25, 2024 at 1:07 PM PDT

Volkswagen AG will invest $5 billion to form a joint venture with electric vehicle maker Rivian Automotive Inc., throwing a lifeline to the struggling startup and giving the German automaker access to the American EV company’s technology.

VW said in a release that it will invest $1 billion immediately in Rivian and an additional $4 billion over time. The new venture will be “equally controlled and owned” and aims to develop “next generation” battery-powered vehicles and software, VW and Rivian said in a joint statement.

Rivian’s shares surged following the announcement, gaining more than 50% in aftermarket trading. The stock had fallen 49% this year through Tuesday’s close.

The strategic tie-up provides Rivian with a much-needed source of fresh capital after the company has struggled to ramp up production and deliveries of its electric pickup and SUV models. It comes ahead of Rivian’s previously-scheduled investor day on Thursday....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=x4rjnz06

[Edmonton_Ian]

I am wondering if this is to help speed up the launch of Scout or just to short-cut it. Honestly with a lot of design similarities I wouldn't have been shocked to hear about a badge engineering/co-venture or even VW using spare capacity at the Rivian factory to get things going...

[Truenorth00]

Rivian gets capital.

Volkswagen gets software.

And hopefully, I will get an R3.

[SpongeG]

I saw an electric VW van yesterday, are they released? It's the only one I've ever seen on the road.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I saw an electric VW van yesterday, are they released? It's the only one I've ever seen on the road.

I didn't think they were released yet either. It's probably the current EV I'd most like to own.