CHICAGO | General Developments - Page 2650

Steely Dan · #**52981** Posted **Jun 20, 2024, 6:01 PM**

^ oh, I totally get what you're saying.

But selfishly for me, I just personally care way more about the utterly ridiculous amount of criminally underzoned RS--3 land in this city, than the more forgettable RS-1 & 2 realms mostly found out at the very fingertip fringes of the city.

I mean, my own Lincoln Square is like 75%+ RS-3. That is just beyond stupid for a neighborhood that was historically built WAY more densely, still with a functional population density of 20K ppsm, 4 stops on the brown line, a metra stop, and criss-crossed by 6 bus routes.

I see places like Beverly and Sauganash and their ilk more as hopeless lost causes that mainly serve as "suburbs within city limits for city workers who wholesale refuse to live a more urban lifestyle".

dreamy-developer · #**52982** Posted **Jun 20, 2024, 6:46 PM**

Wow. 919 W Fulton is going up sooo fast!! I was in the area about a month ago and it only had 2-3 stories done.

Thing is bound to top off really soon

Randomguy34 · #**52983** Posted **Jun 20, 2024, 6:57 PM**

Remember that the 2022 TOD ordinance was close to having all residential land in a quarter-mile radius of CTA/Metra stations count as RT-4. Ald. Tunney, who chaired the zoning committee at the time, was the main roadblock, which meant it had to be removed from the ordinance. It is impressive though the proposal made it that far, that would have been unthinkable a decade ago.

His successor Ald. Lawson, who coincidentally is temporarily chairing the zoning committee, is the one pushing for the current ADU ordinance. Some of the progressive alders are also upzoning Western Ave in their ward. Ald. Napolitano's zoning committee approved two new midrises in Edison Park and told residents to suck it up or else City Hall will give them a problem (article). Lastly, Johnson's Cut the Tape initiative has said they want to allow 3-flats citywide. City Hall is slowly realizing that there needs to be much more development across the city, even if it makes some people upset. I say we're entering a paradigm shift where we will see much more development across the city, even in places like Beverly and Sauganash

Steely Dan · #**52984** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 12:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Lastly, Johnson's Cut the Tape initiative has said they want to allow 3-flats citywide. City Hall is slowly realizing that there needs to be much more development across the city, even if it makes some people upset. I say we're entering a paradigm shift where we will see much more development across the city, even in places like Beverly and Sauganash

I hope you're right.

But wanting to do it is infinitely easier than making it happen.

But I guess desire is the first step.

intrepidDesign · #**52985** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 2:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ oh, I totally get what you're saying.

But selfishly for me, I just personally care way more about the utterly ridiculous amount of criminally underzoned RS--3 land in this city, than the more forgettable RS-1 & 2 realms mostly found out at the very fingertip fringes of the city.

I mean, my own Lincoln Square is like 75%+ RS-3. That is just beyond stupid for a neighborhood that was historically built WAY more densely, still with a functional population density of 20K ppsm, 4 stops on the brown line, a metra stop, and criss-crossed by 6 bus routes.

I see places like Beverly and Sauganash and their ilk more as hopeless lost causes that mainly serve as "suburbs within city limits for city workers who wholesale refuse to live a more urban lifestyle".

District 1860 up in Sauganash was a notable break from this. It's anecdotal, I know, and I do largely agree with what you're saying. I just don't see it as a hopelessly lost cause, just something we won't see in a meaningful way likely in our lifetimes.

r18tdi · #**52986** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepidDesign

District 1860 up in Sauganash...

That's Lincolnwood my dude

intrepidDesign · #**52987** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi

That's Lincolnwood my dude

Ah shoot, you're right, my bad.

ardecila · #**52988** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 7:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Remember that the 2022 TOD ordinance was close to having all residential land in a quarter-mile radius of CTA/Metra stations count as RT-4. Ald. Tunney, who chaired the zoning committee at the time, was the main roadblock, which meant it had to be removed from the ordinance. It is impressive though the proposal made it that far, that would have been unthinkable a decade ago.

His successor Ald. Lawson, who coincidentally is temporarily chairing the zoning committee, is the one pushing for the current ADU ordinance. Some of the progressive alders are also upzoning Western Ave in their ward. Ald. Napolitano's zoning committee approved two new midrises in Edison Park and told residents to suck it up or else City Hall will give them a problem (article). Lastly, Johnson's Cut the Tape initiative has said they want to allow 3-flats citywide. City Hall is slowly realizing that there needs to be much more development across the city, even if it makes some people upset. I say we're entering a paradigm shift where we will see much more development across the city, even in places like Beverly and Sauganash

Yeah I dunno, props to the 41st Ward zoning committee (which is purely advisory to the alderman) but we still don't know if Napolitano will support it. That's exactly the kind of common-sense development that should be occurring in these areas. It's not even out of character, Northwest Hwy is lined with 3 and 4 story apartment blocks from the 60s.

Also a big advantage to ADUs is the ability to add housing (even if it's only a trickle) on side streets, which are usually quiet, leafy, healthy places to live. Putting all new housing on major arterial roads just concentrates people near noise, vibration, localized air pollution and commercial businesses that may not be the best neighbors.

If the process of permitting/building an ADU can be streamlined and the costs reduced (maybe with prefab) then the added income could help more families afford to buy a home. Certainly I think more families will feel comfortable renting out a coach house vs having a rental unit directly above/below the family space.

Chi-Sky21 · #**52989** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 7:57 PM**

I really wonder Loyola's plans for Mertz Hall. They have now redone both parcels to either side. Hard to replace all that dorm space if they wanted to tear it down and rebuild. Unless they are building dorms the other side of the L tracks or something. Not sure what they are doing with that land over there either.

Steely Dan · #**52990** Posted **Jun 21, 2024, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

Certainly I think more families will feel comfortable renting out a coach house vs having a rental unit directly above/below the family space.

New-build coachouses max out at 700 SF gross living space.

Might not be too many "families" looking to downsize that much.

Meanwhile, I've worked on plenty of 2 bed/2 bath basement build-out ADUs.

ardecila · #**52991** Posted **Jun 22, 2024, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

New-build coachouses max out at 700 SF gross living space.

Might not be too many "families" looking to downsize that much.

Meanwhile, I've worked on plenty of 2 bed/2 bath basement build-out ADUs.

No, I'm saying the family would buy an SFH (bungalow etc) and live in the house, while building a coach house behind for the income. That might be a more comfortable arrangement than having an ADU in the basement.

That's my plan, anyway... my wife and I are planning to buy a house in a few years. I'm hoping to find one with a masonry garage that can handle a 2nd story ADU above (lightweight wood frame), that should cut down on the costs a little bit. I can design/permit it myself and do the interior buildout, so I really just need a contractor to do the rough framing, roofing and bring in plumbing/electrical stubs.

Steely Dan · #**52992** Posted **Jun 22, 2024, 4:47 PM**

^ oh, gotcha.

That sounds like a solid game plan.

Being able to do a lot of the work yourself, and trying to find a rare masonry garage to re-use, may very well make the numbers work in your case.

Otherwise, new build coach houses seem like a bridge too far (economically) for your typical middle class bungalow family. That's why so few have actually been built. On PSF cost, they're cooky expensive.

As for Basement ADUs, every single one that I've worked on has been for landlords looking to squeeze out one more legal unit on the cheap to generate more income out of a property they already own.

Not one of them has been for an owner-occuoied bungalow family.

Randomguy34 · #**52993** Posted **Jun 22, 2024, 11:43 PM**

Also, with the removal of parking requirements, pre-fab ADUs are now feasible and should become a lot more popular. You'd still have to assemble it, install new plumbing, electricity, etc., but now you can just buy a 1-story coach house for $50k. I can imagine these being very popular in high-demand neighborhoods

Randomguy34 · #**52994** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 2:29 PM**

Argyle St is getting a really cool pan-Asian food hall, it looks amazing

https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/06...g-on-broadway/

twister244 · #**52995** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 2:43 PM**

So - I was on the Kennedy the this weekend going back and forth to downtown, which is a rarity for me. I saw the finished warehouse at 1237 W. Division.

I can correctly state that is the most ugly thing I have seen built in the city in my lifetime. I understand it's a warehouse and you can't expect it too look amazing, but Jesus this thing looks bad. I was against something like this being put there when it was announced, and I am really sad to see it in person now.

What a tragic waste of space near the river.

IrishIllini · #**52996** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244

So - I was on the Kennedy the this weekend going back and forth to downtown, which is a rarity for me. I saw the finished warehouse at 1237 W. Division.

I can correctly state that is the most ugly thing I have seen built in the city in my lifetime. I understand it's a warehouse and you can't expect it too look amazing, but Jesus this thing looks bad. I was against something like this being put there when it was announced, and I am really sad to see it in person now.

What a tragic waste of space near the river.

Idk how likely it is we see any meaningful development on the west bank of the N Branch until the east bank is considerably more developed. May even be after GI. The Kennedy is a huge barrier. But completely agree it's disgusting.

west-town-brad · #**52997** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

No, I'm saying the family would buy an SFH (bungalow etc) and live in the house, while building a coach house behind for the income. That might be a more comfortable arrangement than having an ADU in the basement.

That's my plan, anyway... my wife and I are planning to buy a house in a few years. I'm hoping to find one with a masonry garage that can handle a 2nd story ADU above (lightweight wood frame), that should cut down on the costs a little bit. I can design/permit it myself and do the interior buildout, so I really just need a contractor to do the rough framing, roofing and bring in plumbing/electrical stubs.

So I have a new construction masonry garage that is about 500 sq feet. If I were to add an ADU above I would have to figure out how to connect to the street sewer, water, and gas lines without busting through the house. I'd also need to figure out the zoning impacts of replacing the garage rooftop deck with an ADU, because I think the rooftop deck counts as required "rear yard" in some way. Not to mention the idea of having people living above 2 cars and how to deal with that in the construction of the ADU....

Steely Dan · #**52998** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 9:22 PM**

^ IIRC, open space reqs can only be met by decks that are 4' or less above grade.

A garage roof top deck should not be eligible, unless there was an administrative adjustment/variance given.

west-town-brad · #**52999** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244

So - I was on the Kennedy the this weekend going back and forth to downtown, which is a rarity for me. I saw the finished warehouse at 1237 W. Division.

I can correctly state that is the most ugly thing I have seen built in the city in my lifetime. I understand it's a warehouse and you can't expect it too look amazing, but Jesus this thing looks bad. I was against something like this being put there when it was announced, and I am really sad to see it in person now.

What a tragic waste of space near the river.

Let's not act like this building is ruining a pristine riverfront paradise.... It's a new build warehouse surrounded by many existing warehouses, next to 4 train tracks and a huge elevated 8 lane highway.... in a planned manufacturing district (protected by law for such uses) and a bunch of car dealerships.

twister244 · #**53000** Posted **Jun 24, 2024, 10:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

Let's not act like this building is ruining a pristine riverfront paradise.... It's a new build warehouse surrounded by many existing warehouses, next to 4 train tracks and a huge elevated 8 lane highway.... in a planned manufacturing district (protected by law for such uses) and a bunch of car dealerships.

I get that, but this thing looks absolutely horrible. They could have at least tried a bit..... Put some Ivy on the outside of the building, creative painting on it.... Anything.

It looks horrendous as it is right now.