[Gatineau] New Hospital | 600 beds

[harls]

Asticou seems ok to me. That whole site just seems like it is waiting for development.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Jokes aside. Yes some people take the bus. But choosing mostly based on access to transit is crazy. Continually blocking because it's not perfect what might be the only chance to get a hospitial built is foolhardy. Ottawa had the same discussion but was mature enough to agree though there were different dynamics there we had the same rapid transit forever crowd there too.

It's not purely based on transit. Road access is still important for those who do drive and paramedics. This site is not ideal for all involved. Technologies would be bad for anyone not in a car. De la Carrière is the best site for any mode.

There was a lot of back and forth in Ottawa as well, starting with the site across the street from the current Civic, which was opposed due to the impact on the Farm. Once the Liberals were elected, the NCC took a few months? A year? Before selecting Parkdale, which was opposed by the hospital due to limited road access for paramedics. The Province, City, Feds and Hospital quickly settled on Dow's Lake as a good compromise.

The Civic site selection was far quicker and efficient once the NCC got involved (it did drag on for years previously with study after study). The CAQ taking 6 years and continuously choosing dumb sites is frustrating, especially when we were promised a hospital within 5 years of their initial election.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's not purely based on transit. Road access is still important for those who do drive and paramedics. This site is not ideal for all involved. Technologies would be bad for anyone not in a car. De la Carrière is the best site for any mode.

There was a lot of back and forth in Ottawa as well, starting with the site across the street from the current Civic, which was opposed due to the impact on the Farm. Once the Liberals were elected, the NCC took a few months? A year? Before selecting Parkdale, which was opposed by the hospital due to limited road access for paramedics. The Province, City, Feds and Hospital quickly settled on Dow's Lake as a good compromise.

The Civic site selection was far quicker and efficient once the NCC got involved (it did drag on for years previously with study after study). The CAQ taking 6 years and continuously choosing dumb sites is frustrating, especially when we were promised a hospital within 5 years of their initial election.

Yeah but the Autoroute 5 site had the best road access.

As for Ottawa I think the real reason was clearly the loss of parking. Counteracting my point about people never taking transit but yes a lot of staff will if it is right on a rapid transit line. None of the Gatineau sites are looking at that level of transit access. As for Ottawa I still think the current site is better and let's put some other office on the LRT adjacent site rather than a hospital.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah but the Autoroute 5 site had the best road access.

Better than Boulevard de la Carriere? How so?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah but the Autoroute 5 site had the best road access.

As for Ottawa I think the real reason was clearly the loss of parking. Counteracting my point about people never taking transit but yes a lot of staff will if it is right on a rapid transit line. None of the Gatineau sites are looking at that level of transit access. As for Ottawa I still think the current site is better and let's put some other office on the LRT adjacent site rather than a hospital.

By the A5 site, Do you mean Blvd Des Technologies, rue Edmonton or de la Carrière? Because all are easily accessible via the A5. Arguably gets easier as you get closer to the Centre-Ville.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

By the A5 site, Do you mean Blvd Des Technologies, rue Edmonton or de la Carrière? Because all are easily accessible via the A5. Arguably gets easier as you get closer to the Centre-Ville.

Blvd Des Technologies where there is direct highway access. Assuming (big assumption given how much Quebec cheaps out on highway ramps) a new direct bidirectional access to A5.

Edmonton I am not aware of. The issue there is congestion and access to the highway but it certainly seems close enough to me and in terms of all forms of transport prefereable to Asticou. Blvd Des Technolgies was greefield, very accessible with a new bus route a easy option but wasn't good enough for the anti car lobby.

[Acajack]

The interchange at Hautes-Plaines (which leads to Technologie) is not very busy but might have needed some upgrading if the hospital were put there. (Or a dedicated ramp as has been evoked.)

But the interchange at Casino-St-Raymond is already very busy and congested as it is. This would have been an issue if the Carrière site had been selected. (I agree it's a great site for transit though.)

And this interchange was worked on not that long ago so not sure they'd want to re-do it again.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Edmonton I am not aware of. The issue there is congestion and access to the highway but it certainly seems close enough to me and in terms of all forms of transport prefereable to Asticou. Blvd Des Technolgies was greefield, very accessible with a new bus route a easy option but wasn't good enough for the anti car lobby.

But it's more than just being by a highway. A less central site means a longer drive for most people.

Yes a new bus route is a possibility, but it would be considerably longer, less convenient and less efficient than using existing infrastructure. If you are basing your site preference on existing highways, then why wouldn't a similar consideration be the existing Rapibus corridor?

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The interchange at Hautes-Plaines (which leads to Technologie) is not very busy but might have needed some upgrading if the hospital were put there. (Or a dedicated ramp as has been evoked.)

But the interchange at Casino-St-Raymond is already very busy and congested as it is. This would have been an issue if the Carrière site had been selected. (I agree it's a great site for transit though.)

And this interchange was worked on not that long ago so not sure they'd want to re-do it again.

The Edmonton site had some dedicated ramps planned, I'm sure they could get creative with Carrière.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

The Edmonton site had some dedicated ramps planned, I'm sure they could get creative with Carrière.

I dunno. The northbound A-5 as you approach the Casino-St-Raymond exit is flanked by a small cliff. You'd have to blast through it to get a ramp in there.

Anyway, it's all moot at this point since we're going to Asticou I am pretty sure.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I dunno. The northbound A-5 as you approach the Casino-St-Raymond exit is flanked by a small cliff. You'd have to blast through it to get a ramp in there.

Anyway, it's all moot at this point since we're going to Asticou I am pretty sure.

Yes seems like a done deal. Also they are saying it opens by 2026? Is that possible?

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes seems like a done deal. Also they are saying it opens by 2026? Is that possible?

It's definitely not possible, 2026 is what they were saying years ago.

The new Vaudreuil-Soulanges hospital is supposed to be done in 2026, but construction started early 2023 and it's already multiple levels above ground.

[Acajack]

I'll be happy if it's open within 5 years.

[rocketphish]

New Gatineau hospital site announced, expected to open in 2034
Feds transferring Asticou Centre to Quebec government, NCC for new 600-bed facility

CBC News
Posted: Jun 20, 2024 9:42 AM EDT | Last Updated: 42 minutes ago



The latest site for a new hospital in Gatineau, Que., is a federal government complex northwest of the city core.

On Thursday morning, the federal government announced it will transfer the Asticou Centre to the Quebec government and the National Capital Commission (NCC) for the new hospital.

"Today is the start of an important journey that will lead to the construction of a much-needed, brand new hospital," said Public Services and Procurement Minister Jean-Yves Duclos at a news conference Thursday morning.

The Coalition Avenir Québec promised western Quebec a new hospital during its successful 2018 election campaign.

The province wanted to build on boulevard de la Technologie in the city's north end, then pivoted in 2022 to an industrial park in the city's Hull sector.

The Asticou Centre at 241 blvd. Cité des Jeunes was on a list of properties the federal government was considering for sale or transfer.

While there has been criticism the site isn't located closer to the downtown core, Mathieu Lacombe, the MNA for Papineau and minister responsible for the Outaouais region, told reporters the site is close to a local Cégep.

"We could create a training centre to find people to work in this hospital," he said in French.

The Asticou Centre sits on 26 hectares, of which 17.2 hectares will be transferred to the province by December 2025. It's unclear how much the province is paying for the land.

The remaining 8.9 hectares will be transferred to the NCC to be turned into green space.

It's hoped the 600-bed hospital will open by 2034, later than the original target of 2032. That timeline doesn't sit well with everyone, however.

"The population is growing. It's getting older," Karine D'Auteuil, president of the Syndicat des professionnelles en soins de l'Outaouais (SPSO), a union representing local nurses, said in French.

"The new infrastructure is attractive in the long term, but we also need short and medium term solutions."

The Outaouais has also been dealing with staffing shortages that have strained its health-care system.

Thursday's announcement also included a high-volume medical clinic on rue Crémazie in downtown Gatineau. That facility will house a number of services, including a vaccination centre and lab, and is expected to open in 2026.

Two years ago, the province cancelled a plan to build the hospital on Gatineau's outskirts after intense pushback from the public. The Asticou site is closer to the city's core.

"We redid a very thorough analysis of all the available sites," Quebec Health Minister Christian Dubé told reporters Thursday.

He said the federal government has been accommodating by offering up the new site.

"I think today we're very, very pleased with that because it didn't take years to do. It took months."

Concerns about the new location remain, however: It's far from Gatineau's downtown core, is currently underserved by public transit, and road access is limited.

"Despite the fact that Asticou is less out of the way than some other potential sites, let's be clear, it is not an optimal site," Nathalie Prud'homme, president of urban planning group L'Ordre des urbanistes du Québec, told Radio-Canada in French.

"Placing a major regional infrastructure so far from existing services and more densely populated living environments constitutes a missed opportunity to contribute to the revitalization of the city centre."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...unce-1.7239216

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Edmonton I am not aware of. The issue there is congestion and access to the highway but it certainly seems close enough to me and in terms of all forms of transport prefereable to Asticou. Blvd Des Technolgies was greefield, very accessible with a new bus route a easy option but wasn't good enough for the anti car lobby.

The Edmonton site was their preferred site for two years. They had officially announced it as THE site but then it took them two years to realize they had to expropriate dozens of properties and businesses, along with major decontamination.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes seems like a done deal. Also they are saying it opens by 2026? Is that possible?

As per the Edmonton site, we thought that was a done deal as well.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes seems like a done deal. Also they are saying it opens by 2026? Is that possible?

When they were elected in 2018, the promise was a new hospital by 2023. Then 2026, now 2032. I don't believe anything these people say. They've been gaslighting us ever since they made all sorts of promises during the 2018 election campaign.

[harls]

Thursday's announcement also included a high-volume medical clinic on rue Crémazie in downtown Gatineau. That facility will house a number of services, including a vaccination centre and lab, and is expected to open in 2026.

That doesn't seem too 'downtown' to me.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by harls

That doesn't seem too 'downtown' to me.

It is what the critics considered "downtown", basically anything on the Island of Hull or near the Rapibus on the Hull side. That said, of the three Crémazie towers, this is the least accessible one, a 20 minute (1.1 km) walk to station Montcalm according to Google (I'm calculating 600 meters, but that's still a lot).

[harls]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It is what the critics considered "downtown", basically anything on the Island of Hull or near the Rapibus on the Hull side. That said, of the three Crémazie towers, this is the least accessible one, a 20 minute (1.1 km) walk to station Montcalm according to Google (I'm calculating 600 meters, but that's still a lot).

It's at the end of the 50, accessible only from WB Allumettières. I guess there is that crosswalk right before the roundabout.

Seems to me they didn't want to put an actual clinic on some place like Eddy or Laval or Papineau.

(none of this is directed at you, J.OT.)

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Edmonton site was their preferred site for two years. They had officially announced it as THE site but then it took them two years to realize they had to expropriate dozens of properties and businesses, along with major decontamination.



As per the Edmonton site, we thought that was a done deal as well.



When they were elected in 2018, the promise was a new hospital by 2023. Then 2026, now 2032. I don't believe anything these people say. They've been gaslighting us ever since they made all sorts of promises during the 2018 election campaign.

Yes I'm sure they don't want to spend this kind of money on a hospital that has a handful of ridings. Opposing the site twice just feeds into that.

[J.OT13]

Another aspect of this is the new Out Patient Clinic building on Crémazie. They bought a tower from Heafey, but of course they bought the one that's least accessible to the Rapibus; on the Rapibus, but the actual station is across Allumetières, so it's a 500 meter to a kilometer (if you believe Google) walk.

If they build a pedestrian/cycling bridge to connect the two stretches of Crémazie, then that's great. Doubt they'll do it though.

Nouveau complexe hospitalier en Outaouais

Publié le 20 juin 2024

Le ministre de la Santé, Christian Dubé, le ministre de la Culture et des Communications et ministre responsable de la région de l’Outaouais, Mathieu Lacombe, le ministre responsable des Infrastructures, Jonatan Julien, ainsi que la députée de Hull, Suzanne Tremblay, ont annoncé que le nouvel hôpital de l’Outaouais sera érigé sur le site Asticou et qu’un point de service sera construit au centre-ville de Gatineau. Le projet se voit modifié afin de mieux correspondre aux attentes et aux besoins de la population de la région et de se réaliser dans les meilleurs délais pour une mise en service plus rapide pour la population.

Un site qui répond aux besoins de la population

Le site Asticou, qui accueillera le projet hospitalier de 600 lits, présente les qualités requises au succès du projet, notamment en ce qui a trait à ses caractéristiques techniques, à sa position géographique dans la ville à proximité des cégeps, des écoles et des services, à son accessibilité en transport en commun.

Un point de service au centre-ville de Gatineau

Par ailleurs, en plus du nouveau centre hospitalier qui desservira l’ensemble de la région de l’Outaouais, le projet inclut l’acquisition d’un immeuble au centre-ville de Gatineau pour y regrouper certaines activités cliniques à haut volume. Ces activités, dont certaines étaient initialement prévues dans le complexe hospitalier, sont, notamment, un centre de prélèvement et de vaccination, plusieurs services de première ligne et les laboratoires OPTILAB. Ce centre sera ouvert et accessible à la population dès 2026. L’immeuble faisant l’objet d’une promesse d’achat est situé au 70, rue Crémazie, un lieu central très accessible à la population, notamment par le Rapibus.

Des études plus poussées ont nécessité de revoir le projet

Le projet du nouveau complexe hospitalier de l’Outaouais a dû être revu à la suite d’études techniques qui ont déterminé que le terrain initialement retenu ne pouvait recevoir un projet d’hôpital. Ces études ne pouvaient être faites avant la sélection du site, car elles nécessitaient l’autorisation des propriétaires visés. Les études ont démontré une présence importante de biogaz, possiblement impropre à la construction d’un hôpital, conclusion qui ne pourrait être obtenue qu’après avoir commencé les travaux de construction, un risque jugé inacceptable par le gouvernement. Ce facteur, additionné à la complexité des travaux de déconstruction et de construction, les expropriations plus nombreuses qu’anticipé et la difficulté de relocaliser les entreprises visées, notamment, ont amené le gouvernement à identifier une autre avenue.

https://coalitionavenirquebec.org/fr...-en-outaouais/