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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2024, 2:51 PM
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2024, 3:22 PM
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Note as well that this is now Empire - an actual builder, so this has quite a high chance of being built. They build thousands of units a year across the province. It's also a sign of larger developers taking increasing interest in Hamilton instead of the usual group of local guys who struggle to do anything and if they do manage to do anything, it's usually crap.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2024, 3:29 PM
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The area around Copps is going to look so different in 5 years.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2024, 4:11 PM
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Looks like they'll knock down the church but save some elements to repurpose, such as the greek columns. Seems like they are going with a retro-art deco design for the lobby.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2024, 4:45 PM
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The area around Copps is going to look so different in 5 years.
I'd love to see an updated "future skyline" image of Hamilton that captures all these more recent proposals.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2024, 8:37 PM
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Looks like they'll knock down the church but save some elements to repurpose, such as the greek columns. Seems like they are going with a retro-art deco design for the lobby.
I'm not sure about that - from the looks of the meeting it seems they actually want to preserve the building.. which would reduce this to one tower behind the parking lot, not two - the heritage council was very insulted by the proposal it seems.. they moved to apply heritage designation to it.

Can't be bothered to rehash so I'll just post me and chris' conversation from the toronto forums to rehash this:

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...s.34801/page-3
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 7:26 PM
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Councillors opposed development plan to raze downtown Hamilton's Philpott Memorial Church
Developer says two 30-storey towers will provide 'badly needed housing'

https://www.thespec.com/news/council...bb48efd1a.html

City councillors are opposed to a developer's pitch to demolish a 123-year-old downtown Hamilton church to make way for residential towers.

Instead, they've told city staff to issue notice of the city's plan to protect Philpott Memorial Church on York Boulevard under provincial heritage legislation.

Empire Communities hopes to build two 30-storey residential towers with roughly 700 residential units and commercial space on the property across from FirstOntario Centre.

A plan that doesn't involve razing the church would cut the housing component in half, Stephen Armstrong, a consultant representing the developer, told councillors Friday.

“We're providing badly needed housing on a site that's ready to go.”

Technical studies, meanwhile, have found the church's facade is “unsavable” with badly deteriorating bricks under stone cladding that was added in 1957, Armstrong noted.

A proposed heritage easement, rather than designation, would ensure key elements such as the church's pillars, stained-glass windows and wood floors, are salvaged and incorporated into the future building, he said.

.......
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Councillors opposed development plan to raze downtown Hamilton's Philpott Memorial Church
Developer says two 30-storey towers will provide 'badly needed housing'

https://www.thespec.com/news/council...bb48efd1a.html

City councillors are opposed to a developer's pitch to demolish a 123-year-old downtown Hamilton church to make way for residential towers.

Instead, they've told city staff to issue notice of the city's plan to protect Philpott Memorial Church on York Boulevard under provincial heritage legislation.

Empire Communities hopes to build two 30-storey residential towers with roughly 700 residential units and commercial space on the property across from FirstOntario Centre.

A plan that doesn't involve razing the church would cut the housing component in half, Stephen Armstrong, a consultant representing the developer, told councillors Friday.

“We're providing badly needed housing on a site that's ready to go.”

Technical studies, meanwhile, have found the church's facade is “unsavable” with badly deteriorating bricks under stone cladding that was added in 1957, Armstrong noted.

A proposed heritage easement, rather than designation, would ensure key elements such as the church's pillars, stained-glass windows and wood floors, are salvaged and incorporated into the future building, he said.

.......
Yeah they're gonna fight tooth and nail to keep that building - esp since they were rather insulted at the generic design he hoped to put in its place - the whole "demolishing 5 city blocks to make jackson" is not likely to be repeated again with whatever is left around it. I hope they come up with a compromise - I'd like to see it restored to its former glory before the stone was put on top. I know this isa controvertial topic, esp between chris and honestmaple as seen on the toronto forums lol.. but I am a heritage guy, and I wanna see it kept

Also they make it sound like cutting the amt in half is the end of the world - look how much is being proposed for the replacement of city center alone, along with the cobalt development and all the others - we're doing fine for adding density.

Also these are people who build housing - rebricking a building, structural issues that might come up aside,.. they probably already have brick in stock to use - it was built a century ago - it can't be that complicated. Building code standards.. maybe. Incorporating it into a new building.. maybe - but at least then you're already peeling off the outside -itd probably be easier to incorporate tan ust butting it against existing brick.

Mind you, hamilton IS kinda cursed then it comes to incorporating churches into new designs..
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 9:23 PM
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I wonder... would the city be willing to trade two towers for a single taller one with a larger floorplate that preserves the original church?

That seems like a decent compromise to me.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 9:56 PM
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It will involve far more than just retaining the church building. The developer is going to have to completely rebuild the church building from the inside out. It's crumbling. They'll also have to remove the 1970's era facade. It's a mess that offers little to no historic value.

My bet, this lot remains undeveloped, and the church will continue as it is now - a place for vagrants to hang out.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2024, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple View Post
It will involve far more than just retaining the church building. The developer is going to have to completely rebuild the church building from the inside out. It's crumbling. They'll also have to remove the 1970's era facade. It's a mess that offers little to no historic value.

My bet, this lot remains undeveloped, and the church will continue as it is now - a place for vagrants to hang out.
Not necessarily from the inside out - the inside appears to be fine, and they even said, if they left the stone facade as is on the outside, it'd probably be fine - its disturbing it at all that's the issue, as the brick behind it apparently turns to dust when you touch it, and because its been cemented to the brick, so removing the stone will damage and disintegrate the bricks.

And we get it thehonestmaple - you don't like it - you don't think it has historic value, but others do - including me - and that's why people have differing opinions in reality.

You and I are kinda like the 2 viewpoints of the developer and the city right now. There will always be those 2 viewpoints in history, because people value different things and find different things beautiful and worth keeping. We should probably stop beating this dead horse.

Also ANY property will continue to have vagrants hanging out there at this spot providing the good shepherd still remains beside it. They also hang out at copps across the street, and it's not abandoned. So that point is moot. It's not just the empty church attracting vagrants, its its proximity to the good shepherd and noone doing anything to shoo these people away, which is rampant all over the city right now. You build a new condo here, they will also take up residence there too.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 4:34 PM
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Downtown Hamilton congregation opposes heritage status of Philpott church

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...454b70a3f.html

A downtown Hamilton congregation is urging council to abandon plans to designate its historic church under provincial heritage legislation.

But city politicians have backed a plan to follow through with the designation of Philpott Memorial Church under the Ontario Heritage Act.

"I think that it's important that we maintain our heritage assets; This is one of them," Coun. Cameron Kroetsch said Tuesday.

Church leaders say the city's signal alone to designate the York Boulevard building has put a real-estate deal with a highrise developer on shaky ground.

That's jeopardizing a plan to redevelop another downtown property on King Street East into a modern, more functional church, lead pastor Rev. Russell Bartlett told the planning committee.

"Without the sale, it's not financially viable," Bartlett said.

Philpott Memorial reached a purchase agreement in 2021 with the developer and had planned to move out of the 84 York Blvd. sanctuary this year, but the deal hasn't yet closed.

The congregation is growing and dedicated to social causes in the core, said Bartlett, noting renovations are underway at the former Lincoln Alexander Centre on King.

"We have already made a significant investment in our relocation."

The designation of Philpott, which dates to 1901 and 1906, "at this stage, I think, is deeply unfair," Bartlett said.

Empire Communities hopes to build two 30-storey residential towers with roughly 700 residential units and commercial space on the property across from FirstOntario Centre.

That plan involves razing the church.

Technical studies have pointed to "significant issues" with the building, including old knob-and-tube wiring, lead pipes and accessibility issues, David Falletta, a planning consultant representing the congregation, said Tuesday.

It would cost $2.5 million to $3.9 million "just to bring it up to snuff" with building standards, he said.

The bricks underneath 1950s-era cement cladding are badly deteriorating, making a facade replacement "not feasible," Falletta said.

"We don't even have an estimate of that because it's just way too expensive."

The developer has proposed a heritage easement, rather than designation, to ensure key elements, such as the church's pillars, stained-glass windows and wood floors, are salvaged and incorporated into the future building.

But city politicians have backed planning staff's position that the "structurally sound" church can be incorporated into the highrise development.

In March, the city issued its notice of "intention to designate" 84 York Blvd. and, on Tuesday, the planning committee considered official objections, including those of the congregation and developer.

Designation under the Heritage Act can safeguard the church's "significant features" and that protected status makes it eligible for financial programs for adaptive reuse of the building, a staff report noted.

"Further, staff are willing to continue discussions to find a revised development concept for the site that would balance both a dense housing development and the retention of this significant heritage building."

In February, a consultant representing the developer said a plan that doesn't involve knocking down the church would cut the housing component in half.

"We're providing badly needed housing on a site that's ready to go," Stephen Armstrong said.

In an 7-4 vote Tuesday, the planning committee decided to stay the course of heritage designation. That decision awaits final approval at council next week.

Coun. Ted McMeekin noted he's "really torn" as a "heritage buff" but emphasized his appreciation of faith communities striving to advance their ministries.

"Is there a compromise that would actually work? ... That's my dilemma."

Coun. Jeff Beattie noted similar reservations. "Am I protecting the building, or am I protecting the congregation?"

Once designation is enshrined in bylaw, appeals can be filed to the Ontario Land Tribunal to challenge the status.

The Philpott project figures into a plan to create an entertainment precinct along York Boulevard with high-density housing and eateries in concert with a refurbished FirstOntario Centre.

The Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group (HUPEG), a private consortium that's working with the city, has voiced support for the project.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 5:25 PM
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wow! Great to hear it. Completely agree. The decision to put a heritage designation on this Church is a complete bonehead move. The church offers little heritage value, and it's going to destroy any chance of developing this plot of land into something that will actual provide income for the city and vibrancy for the area. Cameron Kroetsch is such a clown. Has no idea what he's doing.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 6:05 PM
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it was a unanimous council vote, but I agree, this building needs a date with a wrecking ball
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 6:38 PM
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it was a unanimous council vote, but I agree, this building needs a date with a wrecking ball
Unfortunately he has convinced half of council during another one of his ideological grandstanding speeches on Tuesday. Blind leading the blind.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 8:34 PM
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How much property tax will this cost us? Two new big condo buildings would generate a lot of dollars compared to the church.

The old baptist church on James was way better than this hunk of junk.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 9:04 PM
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How much property tax will this cost us? Two new big condo buildings would generate a lot of dollars compared to the church.

The old baptist church on James was way better than this hunk of junk.
On average each unit would probably pay at least $4000 dollars per year. So, how many units were planned here? 1000? The city is giving up 4 million dollars per year in tax revenue. It's unbelievable really how stupid this council is.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 10:32 PM
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Developers might not always be around looking to build either.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2024, 10:52 PM
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I'm positive the developer will walk away from this one because of the council's decision. I hope the Church sues the city over it.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2024, 1:31 AM
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Luckily thanks to Douggie you can now appeal heritage designations.. so it’s not over yet.
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