General Updates and News

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Okay, I didn’t know that “good urbanism” was not debatable. IMHO, this is mainly about buildings, with stuff like transit, cycling, etc. being side topics. Great topics to discuss but you shouldn’t go into the penalty box just because you don’t agree.

No, but the anti-city/anti-urban planning attitudes on here are baffling for a forum that's supposedly about cities and urban planning. It's like if I joined a hunting forum just to complain about hunting and insult hunters. It'd be a waste of mine and everybody else's time. We're at the point now where we can't bring up biking or pedestrian infrastructure without having the same frequent posters launching into the same tired rants for the nth time based on no evidence but just vibes. It's annoying for us who would like to talk about the city and new things going on, not bikes bad cars good argument we keep going back to.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by DBaz

So how does calling people "pencil neck geeks" embrace what you are describing.

That is a common term used to describe ivory tower bureaucrats who never did an honest day's work in their lives but instead impose their ideas upon those who do. I certainly did not invent it.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That is a common term used to describe ivory tower bureaucrats who never did an honest day's work in their lives but instead impose their ideas upon those who do. I certainly did not invent it.

Use big boy words Keith. Why do you have to write like you're a junior high school bully?

[hoser111]

Does anyone have any actual construction news? The bickering going on in this forum lately is getting a bit tedious. Can we park it???

[CryingAutumn]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Clearly some younger folk believe urbanism is something akin to a religion. To some others it seems as though it is more like a cult. Those of us with some age on us tend to embrace a more inclusive mix of all types of planning regimens. It should not be a "You're with us or agin' us" type of thinking.

What does that mean? Were you not the person who said Halifax needs another Robert Moses? Robert Moses tore up communities, mostly poor / coloured neighbourhoods.

You say we need a "more inclusive mix of all planning regimens", yet you get upset when a bus or bike lane gets proposed.

[CryingAutumn]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

No, but the anti-city/anti-urban planning attitudes on here are baffling for a forum that's supposedly about cities and urban planning. It's like if I joined a hunting forum just to complain about hunting and insult hunters. It'd be a waste of mine and everybody else's time. We're at the point now where we can't bring up biking or pedestrian infrastructure without having the same frequent posters launching into the same tired rants for the nth time based on no evidence but just vibes. It's annoying for us who would like to talk about the city and new things going on, not bikes bad cars good argument we keep going back to.

Yeah, it's pretty strange how much car centricity is on this forum, considering it's an urban planning forum. As you said, it's annoying that people get upset at the mention of bike lanes and improving transit.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by hoser111

Does anyone have any actual construction news? The bickering going on in this forum lately is getting a bit tedious. Can we park it???

Amen.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by HarbingerDe

Lmao, where is this inclusive mix you speak of?

This city's rotting car-centric infrastructure is BAD even in comparison to the average North American city's rotting car-centric infrastructure.

People of "your age" tore up the tram lines (you're probably not THAT old but still). You tried to build a freeway around the perimeter of the peninsula (thankfully never occurred). You built anti-pedestrian / anti-cyclist nightmare intersection after nightmare intersection.

Now the HRM builds a few bus lanes / cycling lanes, and you lose your mind. I really am curious where the this inclusive mix that you think exists is hiding itself.

Can you name one of these "planning regimens" you subscribe to. As far as I can tell it's just, "Roads good. Cars good. Me angry when minorly inconvenienced behind the wheel."

To keep it real, the tram lines were torn up after the transition to electric trolleybuses in 1949. The Harbour Drive (expressway) project dates to 1963. The ‘boomers’ stopped it before what is now known as Historic Properties was torn down (1969, I think).

Those bad planning regimes were following what was considered best practices of the day, yet it’s only retrospectively that we recognize them as being “bad”. Over the decades, mistakes made have led us to what we consider to be best practices “now”, but the reality is that we will likely identify mistakes and further evolve our planning practices as we go.

IMHO, Halifax missed the opportunity a couple of decades ago to go hard on transit planning, and now are trying to take up the slack with more buses when we should now have rail (including elevated and underground) that doesn’t interact with vehicle traffic in any way so that we could have reliable, efficient transit to take you anywhere on the peninsula, with feeders from the suburbs. Our planning habits from just a couple of decades ago have let us down.

Again IMHO, cycling lanes are necessary to protect the safety of cyclists, and absolutely need to be built (they should have started 40 years ago). However, IMHO the idea that they will displace a large chunk of vehicle traffic doesn’t jibe with the fact that people’s schedules are tighter than ever, and not everybody has the luxury of taking extra time to reach their destinations by bicycle, especially in bad weather. We need something better, but unfortunately Halifax’s poor planning practices of the recent past (and current times for that matter), have put us in the position of playing catch up and we’re still not doing enough.

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by CryingAutumn

What does that mean? Were you not the person who said Halifax needs another Robert Moses? Robert Moses tore up communities, mostly poor / coloured neighbourhoods.

You say we need a "more inclusive mix of all planning regimens", yet you get upset when a bus or bike lane gets proposed.

Robert Moses built more infrastructure in a decade than a succession of Jacobs’ admirers and sycophants have done in the past 50 years. Moses also understood the need to scale cities to populations. He also built far more public housing.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

No, but the anti-city/anti-urban planning attitudes on here are baffling for a forum that's supposedly about cities and urban planning. It's like if I joined a hunting forum just to complain about hunting and insult hunters. It'd be a waste of mine and everybody else's time. We're at the point now where we can't bring up biking or pedestrian infrastructure without having the same frequent posters launching into the same tired rants for the nth time based on no evidence but just vibes. It's annoying for us who would like to talk about the city and new things going on, not bikes bad cars good argument we keep going back to.

Whether you believe this or not, I empathize. Way back on that other thread I was trying to hint in a roundabout way that the best practice is to attempt to ignore the folks that are trying to get under your skin (if that includes me, then so be it), and focus on the discussions that you want to have. That was before your buddy came on to be the hero and it went downhill from there.

Anyhow, enough said.

[CryingAutumn]

Originally Posted by GTG_78

Robert Moses built more infrastructure in a decade than a succession of Jacobs’ admirers and sycophants have done in the past 50 years. Moses also understood the need to scale cities to populations. He also built far more public housing.

Sure, while Robert Moses led many large infrastructure projects, most of them involved the demolition of neighbourhoods, most of which were racially motivated. I believe building an expressway through Manhattan would've made traffic worse. Even if it may have helped some with traffic, it wouldn't have been worth what we would've lost, both historically and financially.

While The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs isn't perfect, it was written for an audience in the early 1960's. Jane Jacobs couldn't have predicted that historic and dense city centres would be worth a lot and be unaffordable for the average person 50+ years later. Also, Jane Jacobs was an author and activist. You can't really complain that she didn't build as much public housing as Robert Moses considering that wasn't even her job.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Whether you believe this or not, I empathize. Way back on that other thread I was trying to hint in a roundabout way that the best practice is to attempt to ignore the folks that are trying to get under your skin (if that includes me, then so be it), and focus on the discussions that you want to have. That was before your buddy came on to be the hero and it went downhill from there.

Anyhow, enough said.

When people write mean or ill-informed things on here and I see it, I'm going to respond. If that bugs you then you should follow your own advice and move on.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by CryingAutumn

Sure, while Robert Moses led many large infrastructure projects, most of them involved the demolition of neighbourhoods, most of which were racially motivated. I believe building an expressway through Manhattan would've made traffic worse. Even if it may have helped some with traffic, it wouldn't have been worth what we would've lost, both historically and financially.

While The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs isn't perfect, it was written for an audience in the early 1960's. Jane Jacobs couldn't have predicted that historic and dense city centres would be worth a lot and be unaffordable for the average person 50+ years later. Also, Jane Jacobs was an author and activist. You can't really complain that she didn't build as much public housing as Robert Moses considering that wasn't even her job.

There's an odd Robert Moses revisionism going on in some YIMBY circles, it seems. Yeah, the guy built a lot, but the consensus take on him (an over-empowered autocrat who destroyed far more than he created) remains correct. I understand that his era of agressive infrastructure building seems attractive today, when it takes a decade to build a single bike lane, but we risk forgetting what earned him his bad rep. If he had been in charge of Halifax we wouldn't have a waterfront today, just a freeway.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

When people write mean or ill-informed things on here and I see it, I'm going to respond. If that bugs you then you should follow your own advice and move on.

Sorry, you seem to have misunderstood the intent of my post, and have given me yet another invitation to leave.

Do as you wish, of course. It's your choice.

I now understand the situation a little better, so thanks for that at least.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

There's an odd Robert Moses revisionism going on in some YIMBY circles, it seems. Yeah, the guy built a lot, but the consensus take on him (an over-empowered autocrat who destroyed far more than he created) remains correct. I understand that his era of agressive infrastructure building seems attractive today, when it takes a decade to build a single bike lane, but we risk forgetting what earned him his bad rep. If he had been in charge of Halifax we wouldn't have a waterfront today, just a freeway.

Yes, we were almost there (previously mentioned Harbour Drive project/Cogswell Interchange). Still, the folks in charge with the Stephenson-inspired 'slum clearance' did enough damage as it was.

[CryingAutumn]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yes, we were almost there (previously mentioned Harbour Drive project/Cogswell Interchange). Still, the folks in charge with the Stephenson-inspired 'slum clearance' did enough damage as it was.

Cogswell interchange

[egb]

Randall Monroe - https://xkcd.com/386/

This place used to be 80% construction news/pictures and 20% trolling, and the past few months its really switched.

Nobody is coming off well in these arguments and if people don't cool this place will die completely.

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by CryingAutumn

Sure, while Robert Moses led many large infrastructure projects, most of them involved the demolition of neighbourhoods, most of which were racially motivated. I believe building an expressway through Manhattan would've made traffic worse. Even if it may have helped some with traffic, it wouldn't have been worth what we would've lost, both historically and financially.

While The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs isn't perfect, it was written for an audience in the early 1960's. Jane Jacobs couldn't have predicted that historic and dense city centres would be worth a lot and be unaffordable for the average person 50+ years later. Also, Jane Jacobs was an author and activist. You can't really complain that she didn't build as much public housing as Robert Moses considering that wasn't even her job.

No, most of Moses projects did not involve the demolition of neighbourhoods, nor were some of the most significant demolitions racially motivated. Moses certainly held racist beliefs, but he’s been reduced to a caricature by three generations of NIMBYist urban planners.

And I am well aware of Jacobs lack of qualifications - it didn’t stop succeeding generations of urban planners from adopting her tenets. Indeed, Jacobs has been a role model and torch bearer for urban NIMBYs - including in Halifax - to rail against building anything new at the expense of a neighbourhood’s ‘character’.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by egb

Randall Monroe - https://xkcd.com/386/

This place used to be 80% construction news/pictures and 20% trolling, and the past few months its really switched.

Nobody is coming off well in these arguments and if people don't cool this place will die completely.

Don't worry - it ebbs and flows. It was really wild back around 2009-2012.

Legend has it that ryejay is still out there trolling.

To be honest, aside from the odd dust up (generation wars apparently now), it's probably the best its ever been!

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by ButterNutPecan

One would think that the skyscraper forums would support good urbanism, but it seems it's more akin to diving into facebook comments.

Hey Rookie, this is forum is a reflection of Halifax for better or worse. Having a difference in perspective is really important, even if it can seem infuriating at times. Keith and DartmouthMark are the resident boomers that are allowed to crow and caw from their front porches when the rest of us get too close to walking on their lawn. It's just the way things work here.

Originally Posted by GTG_78

Robert Moses built more infrastructure in a decade than a succession of Jacobs’ admirers and sycophants have done in the past 50 years. Moses also understood the need to scale cities to populations. He also built far more public housing.

I will be Halifax's Robert Moses in the coming years. I will subvert, manipulate, and play competing factions and power hungry council boomers against each other in my favour while slowly usurping power underneath their noses. It starts in Saskatoon for now, but I'll be back soon.

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Don't worry - it ebbs and flows. It was really wild back around 2009-2012.

Legend has it that ryejay is still out there trolling.

To be honest, aside from the odd dust up (generation wars apparently now), it's probably the best its ever been!

Oh god I just had PTSD flashbacks from a decade+ ago. I remember that guy chewed me out to basically threadly harassment because of my stance on HRM's skyline being a "table top" which he refused to acknowledge (I think it started with the convention centre project). Even Keith was coming in from the top ropes at him until he either stopped coming or got banned. Good times.