VIA Rail

[Nouvellecosse]

^ Are destinations within the corridor really that big a percentage of Bishop traffic? I'm sure it's a decent chunk but it also has flights to NYC, Chicago, DC, Boston, Sault St. Marie, Halifax, Moncton, Fredericton, Thunder Bay, Sudbury and even Timmins. Makes me wonder if a major reduction in corridor flights might just be an opportunity to include other destinations that are currently drowned out by corridor demand.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ Are destinations within the corridor really that big a percentage of Bishop traffic? I'm sure it's a decent chunk but it also has flights to NYC, Chicago, DC, Boston, Sault St. Marie, Halifax, Moncton, Fredericton, Thunder Bay, Sudbury and even Timmins. Makes me wonder if a major reduction in corridor flights might just be an opportunity to include other destinations that are currently drowned out by corridor demand.

I counted 21 of 55 departures today were for Ottawa Montreal and Quebec City. I'm pretty sure 55 isn't the max departures, although I don't remember anymore what that number is. Could be the number of aircraft available that is the limiting factor now, I don't know.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I counted 21 of 55 departures today were for Ottawa Montreal and Quebec City. I'm pretty sure 55 isn't the max departures, although I don't remember anymore what that number is. Could be the number of aircraft available that is the limiting factor now, I don't know.

There's an additional daily to Windsor too. It's not just the number of corridor flights. I question how many of Porter's other flights at YTZ could survive without Corridor feed. Either way, now that they have their Pearson and Ottawa hubs, they'll be survive without YTZ.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yeah, you can always find exceptions, but in places where high speed rail lines are being built there are usually tightly packed cities around 100 km apart.

Lille is is 85 km from Brussels, which is 42 km from Antwerp, which is 74 km from Rotterdam, which is 55 km from Amsterdam. Brussels is also 178 km from Cologne, which is 24 km from Bonn, 35 km from Dusseldorf, or 150 km from Frankfurt, which is 145 km from Stuttgart, which is 160 km from Zurich, or 170 km from Munich.

South of the Alps, Turin is 120 km from Milan, or 103 km from Genoa or 148 km from Nice. Genoa about 200km from Bologna or Florence. There is a bit bigger gap from Florence to Rome (about 230 km), which is 187 km from Naples.

Also, Gothenburg is 250 km to Oslo and 220 km to Copenhagen.

You've just described the most densely populated parts of Europe. Most of the continent isn't the low countries and Germany and Italy. Those are the exceptions. Most of Europe is less densely populated, including the countries with the most developed high speed rail networks.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Mister F

You've just described the most densely populated parts of Europe. Most of the continent isn't the low countries and Germany and Italy. Those are the exceptions. Most of Europe is less densely populated, including the countries with the most developed high speed rail networks.

acottawa is like the anti swimmer_spe. That guy would find any excuse to justify a multi-billion dollar rail line. acottawa would probably find an excuse to justify why New York shouldn't have subways.

There is no other developed country that would look at the geography and population density of the QW Corridor and not build at least some kind of Higher Speed Rail service. They may not have built 350 kph bullet trains. But they most assuredly wouldn't be content with passenger rail running behind freight trains doing 80 kph.

[DieselXL]

https://www.am800cklw.com/news/winds...il-canada.html

VIA and Amtrack still in progress talks to make a link between Chicago and Toronto.
Brief article claiming things are still moving along but they take time (like everything else). Side track (pun intended) discussion in Windsor while showing off the new fleet of VIA trains that'll be running through the Quebec Windsor Corridor.

[Innsertnamehere]

It's a pretty annoying plan to be honest since it involves the Amtrak service simply going through the tunnel and dumping passengers at the Windsor station before returning to the US. If you want to go beyond Windsor you would need to transfer to a VIA train an hour or two later. It's not a 1-seat ride from Toronto to Chicago like the Maple Leaf is to New York.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

It's a pretty annoying plan to be honest since it involves the Amtrak service simply going through the tunnel and dumping passengers at the Windsor station before returning to the US. If you want to go beyond Windsor you would need to transfer to a VIA train an hour or two later. It's not a 1-seat ride from Toronto to Chicago like the Maple Leaf is to New York.

That doesn't sound great, but it takes time for the customers process anyway doesn't it? From my understanding the Maple Leaf tends to wait awhile at the border with inspectors coming aboard and so forth. So changing trains may not really make things slower since the train itself wouldn't need to be searched.

[acottawa]

I don’t understand why they can’t do customs on the train. Even Russians and Finns did that (in a different era).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t understand why they can’t do customs on the train. Even Russians and Finns did that (in a different era).

Probably the Americans....

[J81]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t understand why they can’t do customs on the train. Even Russians and Finns did that (in a different era).

Good question. On the Maple leaf they make everyone get off the train in Niagara Falls and clear customs in the station there. That was pre covid though. Not sure if it has changed.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t understand why they can’t do customs on the train. Even Russians and Finns did that (in a different era).

They do exactly that on the Adirondack. Takes about 90 minutes while standing at the border, but no getting off the train with your baggage and queue up to receive the border treatment and re-enter the train…

[Djeffery]

CTV London story on a new VIA trainset visiting on Thursday and taking local dignitaries to Windsor.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/via-unveil...vice-1.6943942

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Probably the Americans....

I don't think the Americans understand trains and international crossings.

The Vancouver to Seattle service is weird. You do pre-clearance in Vancouver get on the train. The train is sealed with no stops until it reaches the Canada-US crossing. The Americans then have the train stop, someone gets on to inspect things then lets it go on its way.

The Black Ball ferry service between Victoria and US is equally weird. You do US immigration before getting on the ship in Victoria harbour. You then do customers on the other side entering the US.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

They do exactly that on the Adirondack. Takes about 90 minutes while standing at the border, but no getting off the train with your baggage and queue up to receive the border treatment and re-enter the train…

Perhaps a better question is why don’t they do it on moving trains like most of the rest of the world?

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Perhaps a better question is why don’t they do it on moving trains like most of the rest of the world?

May I ask you which countries perform immigration checks on moving trains? Internal Schengen-Area borders don’t count, because regular immigration checks have been abandoned, except for occasional spot checks. I know that Singapore is so strict about its border checks that Malaysia no longer bothers to run their trains across the border…

[Nouvellecosse]

If it was a point-to-point train with no (or very few) intermediate stops, the best option would be pre-clearance. The train would be inspected prior to any passengers boarding, the passengers would then board after going through customs at the station, then the train would just cross the border without stopping. But there couldn't be any intermediate stops unless the stops had a secure containment area and customers to prevent anyone from wandering off without proper clearance. Basically like a plane in that everything would be done at station and it would cross borders as if they weren't there.

But that would only work if the stations had enough international movements to warrant a dedicated customs operation. If it was a once a day type of thing, then not so much. For a Toronto station I can see it working if there was two daily trains to NYC, two to Chicago, and a maybe a regional train to Buffalo and NF, NY every other hour. Given Toronto traffic and the number of NY plates downtown such a setup might be fairly popular and could take some strain off the main border crossings.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

If it was a point-to-point train with no (or very few) intermediate stops, the best option would be pre-clearance. The train would be inspected prior to any passengers boarding, the passengers would then board after going through customs at the station, then the train would just cross the border without stopping. But there couldn't be any intermediate stops unless the stops had a secure containment area and customers to prevent anyone from wandering off without proper clearance. Basically like a plane in that everything would be done at station and it would cross borders as if they weren't there.

But that would only work if the stations had enough international movements to warrant a dedicated customs operation. If it was a once a day type of thing, then not so much. For a Toronto station I can see it working if there was two daily trains to NYC, two to Chicago, and a maybe a regional train to Buffalo and NF, NY every other hour. Given Toronto traffic and the number of NY plates downtown such a setup might be fairly popular and could take some strain off the main border crossings.

The problem with that theory is that the Maple Leaf stops at Oakville, Aldershot ( Burlington) Grimsby, St Catherines and Niagara Falls before it crosses the border. The old service to Chicago also made all the stops between Toronto and Sarnia before crossing the border and any future service would do the same.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by J81

The problem with that theory is that the Maple Leaf stops at Oakville, Aldershot ( Burlington) Grimsby, St Catherines and Niagara Falls before it crosses the border. The old service to Chicago also made all the stops between Toronto and Sarnia before crossing the border and any future service would do the same.

I'm talking about changes that could apply to how future services could be administered, not about any existing service. So I'm not sure why the details of the current services prior to such changes would be relevant since the changes is the whole point. It's like saying that you can't make a particular change because you haven't already made it. Unless there's something that would make all those stops unavoidable. But if it's impossible to bypass intermediate stops made by current services, that would also nullify any discussion of a future HSR since they would also bypass most existing local stops in order to maintain speed.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'm talking about changes that could apply to how future services could be administered, not about any existing service. So I'm not sure why the details of the current services prior to such changes would be relevant since the changes is the whole point. It's like saying that you can't make a particular change because you haven't already made it. Unless there's something that would make all those stops unavoidable. But if it's impossible to bypass intermediate stops made by current services, that would also nullify any discussion of a future HSR since they would also bypass most existing local stops in order to maintain speed.

So you want to have pre clearance in every station between Toronto and the border?
Or are you of the opinion that the train once it leaves Toronto should not stop anywhere until it reaches its US destination? I honestly dont understand your argument.

Also, What has been done in the past is always relevant to what gets done in the future.