[Gatineau] New Hospital | 600 beds

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why this obsession with having a transit connected hosptial? Nobody commutes or takes the bus to the hospital. Let's leave areas ripe for TOD for development that benefit.

For the Civic, the projected modal share for transit goes from 30% to 45%, so presumably quite a few people will be going on the train/bus.

A significant proportion of the population doesn't have access to a car - it's kind of important to give them access to health care as well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would assume the Hull Hospital would close as an ER and in-patient primary care facility, maybe be converted to a long term care home of sorts. This would greatly reduce traffic going to old Hull hospital, giving more capacity to the Asticou Hospital.

Yes and Gatineau hospital on La Vérendrye will have a change of vocation as well. I think it may also lose its ER and become the main psychiatric hospital. (Pierre-Janet in Val-Tétreau may close?)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes and Gatineau hospital on La Vérendrye will have a change of vocation as well. I think it may also lose its ER and become the main psychiatric hospital. (Pierre-Janet in Val-Tétreau may close?)

This may be the latest on the vocation for a few of the hospitals in the region. Interesting how the Hull hospital is considered for "swing space" when it's probably the one that needs the most work. This info probably did not consider the new hospital being a stone's throw away from the current Hull Hospital.

Interesting how they are selling the Wakefield Hospital being under capacity as a bad thing. You don't want 100% + occupancy. This seems to be the same attitude with transit; if the buses and trains aren't crush load, it's a failure somehow.

Hôpital de Gatineau

L'Hôpital de Gatineau comptera pour sa part un total de 258 lits – 100 de santé physique et 148 de santé mentale pour la clientèle adulte – selon ce qui est indiqué dans le plan clinique du CISSSO. Avec trois étages consacrés à la santé mentale, l'Hôpital de Gatineau prendra ainsi la relève de l'Hôpital Pierre-Janet, qui deviendrait un centre de réadaptation en dépendances. La faculté satellite de médecine de l'Université McGill restera aussi à l'Hôpital de Gatineau. Une urgence d'une vingtaine de civières – avec l'ajout d'une «aire adaptée à la santé mentale» – resterait aussi en place à l'Hôpital de Gatineau.

Hôpital de Hull

«À court terme», l'Hôpital de Hull serait utilisé temporairement comme «swing space» pendant la durée des travaux de réaménagement nécessaires à l'Hôpital de Gatineau. «En conclusion, la solution immobilière proposée vise donc l'ajout de 241 nouveaux lits dans la région», précise le plan clinique. […] Présentement, le CISSSO a quelques projets d'infrastructures immobilières à ses hôpitaux de Hull et de Gatineau, qui pourraient ne pas être réalisés selon le scénario retenu.»

À plus long terme, «une partie» de l'Hôpital de Hull pourrait «servir d'installation temporaire durant des travaux majeurs dans d’autres installations». «Les espaces laissés vacants peuvent être utilisés pour usage administratif, limitant ainsi les frais de mise à niveau (par rapport à la rénovation de milieux de soins)», précise aussi le plan clinique.

Hôpital de Wakefield

Ces changements nécessiteront aussi le déplacement de 35 lits de «réadaptation gériatrique» à l'Hôpital de Wakefield. «Pour l'Hôpital de Wakefield, la fermeture des lits d'hospitalisation doit être envisagée compte tenu des données disponibles, lit-on dans le document de 315 pages. En effet, le taux d'occupation de lits de courte durée est passé de 100% à 74% ces trois dernières années et continue de diminuer.»

https://www.ledroit.com/2021/04/12/f...b48f81dfb6801/

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It is not about forcing people to drive. But using up limited central locations and making access more difficult for the 90% of people who will drive on the alter of public transit doesn't make sense. Most hospitcal shifts involve either a very early morning or finish at night so transit is not the go to even for urban hospitals like MUHC there are a lot of drivers.

In the case of a Gatineau hospital in Hull, the Rapibus is along A5 and A50, so the transit-friendly options are also easier to drive to, so you're point is moot either way.

However, the vast majority of office workers have an 8-4 or 9-5, I think you're confusing ER with hospital.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why this obsession with having a transit connected hosptial? Nobody commutes or takes the bus to the hospital. Let's leave areas ripe for TOD for development that benefit.

Ouch you went there, you should know better on this board

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

In the case of a Gatineau hospital in Hull, the Rapibus is along A5 and A50, so the transit-friendly options are also easier to drive to, so you're point is moot either way.

However, the vast majority of office workers have an 8-4 or 9-5, I think you're confusing ER with hospital.

Which location are you reffering to? I don't think building on the downtown site was every being considered.

Originally Posted by phil235

For the Civic, the projected modal share for transit goes from 30% to 45%, so presumably quite a few people will be going on the train/bus.

A significant proportion of the population doesn't have access to a car - it's kind of important to give them access to health care as well.

An expanded Line 2 and moving the Civic 100 meters closer to LRT will increase modal share by 15%? Sure. That is a BS projection to avoid being forced into a Tunney's location.

There will always be a bus connection for people who have no other options. Their infrequent visits shouldn't dicate the location.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

An expanded Line 2 and moving the Civic 100 meters closer to LRT will increase modal share by 15%? Sure. That is a BS projection to avoid being forced into a Tunney's location.

There will always be a bus connection for people who have no other options. Their infrequent visits shouldn't dicate the location.

Whether it is 30% or 45%, that is a significant number of people going to the hospital by transit.

Why do you think that people without cars make infrequent visits? I'm not following the logic. For me it is pretty clear - a demonstrably significant number of people take transit to the hospital, and some of those have no other options. Ergo we should be considering transit accessibility when building new hospitals.

And that is before you even start talking about whether it makes any sense to continue to build major infrastructure that is solely car-oriented at this point in time. That is applying 50s planning techniques in the 2020s.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Which location are you reffering to? I don't think building on the downtown site was every being considered.

The rue Edmonton site was the chosen one for a couple year. Then there's the de la Carrière site that's the most logical but was never seriously considered by the Province. Those were considered "downtown" sites.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

An expanded Line 2 and moving the Civic 100 meters closer to LRT will increase modal share by 15%? Sure. That is a BS projection to avoid being forced into a Tunney's location.

There will always be a bus connection for people who have no other options. Their infrequent visits shouldn't dicate the location.

Not sure I understand. They moved from Tunney's to Dow's Lake on the premise it would draw a higher transit modal share? Tunney's was the far better option for transit. Dow's Lake was chosen in part because it was more accessible by car and provided more possible routes for ambulances. And these numbers came out well after the final site was chosen.

Individual patients may have infrequent visits, but employees have to be there five+ days a week. A bus every 15 minutes at best to Timbuktu isn't exactly a stellar option. Having a major hospital on a BRT or tramway offers frequent and reliable service.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why this obsession with having a transit connected hosptial? Nobody commutes or takes the bus to the hospital. Let's leave areas ripe for TOD for development that benefit.

Not a single person commutes via bus or other mode of transport. Not a single person. Not one. Literally zero. Guess that insanely powerful anti-car lobby is really struggling to exert it's power.

[harls]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Not a single person commutes via bus or other mode of transport. Not a single person. Not one. Literally zero. Guess that insanely powerful anti-car lobby is really struggling to exert it's power.

You're trying to convince the guy who thinks 160 km/h is a normal highway speed between Ottawa and Montreal.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why this obsession with having a transit connected hosptial? Nobody commutes or takes the bus to the hospital. Let's leave areas ripe for TOD for development that benefit.

Is this rage bait or just being grossly misinformed? Take a look at route 45 around shift change time. Packed with nurses and other staff. And then you have elderly or other disabled patients who take transit to the hospital because they cannot drive. Lots of students too (I took transit to the Civic and Riverside campuses when I had semi-regular appointments during my student days).

The more I think about it the more I think hospitals might be the single most important resource to be well connected by transit. Healthcare is the great equalizer in the sense that everybody needs to access it - rich, poor, young & old. In fact you could argue those who access healthcare the most are those who are least likely to be able to drive there.

Very odd comment.

[J.OT13]

TOD is important along transit, but so are destinations, and hospitals are one of the most frequented and essential.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Is this rage bait or just being grossly misinformed? Take a look at route 45 around shift change time. Packed with nurses and other staff. And then you have elderly or other disabled patients who take transit to the hospital because they cannot drive. Lots of students too (I took transit to the Civic and Riverside campuses when I had semi-regular appointments during my student days).

The more I think about it the more I think hospitals might be the single most important resource to be well connected by transit. Healthcare is the great equalizer in the sense that everybody needs to access it - rich, poor, young & old. In fact you could argue those who access healthcare the most are those who are least likely to be able to drive there.

Very odd comment.

Yes there are people commuting. Maybe alcholics who lost their license for example. The point is a bus can go to anywhere. Vehicular acess should be a more important factor. The freak out about the Autoroute 5 risked even killing the project. It was the same nonsense arguments in Ottawa pushing Tunneys. Asticou isn't exactly easily accessible by bus either. Hopefully we jump on this though Gatineau and really Quebec's healthcare woes are not easily solved with infrastruce alone.

[Psychedelic Sailor]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes there are people commuting. Maybe alcholics who lost their license for example. The point is a bus can go to anywhere. Vehicular acess should be a more important factor. The freak out about the Autoroute 5 risked even killing the project. It was the same nonsense arguments in Ottawa pushing Tunneys. Asticou isn't exactly easily accessible by bus either. Hopefully we jump on this though Gatineau and really Quebec's healthcare woes are not easily solved with infrastruce alone.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes there are people commuting. Maybe alcholics who lost their license for example. The point is a bus can go to anywhere. Vehicular acess should be a more important factor. The freak out about the Autoroute 5 risked even killing the project. It was the same nonsense arguments in Ottawa pushing Tunneys. Asticou isn't exactly easily accessible by bus either. Hopefully we jump on this though Gatineau and really Quebec's healthcare woes are not easily solved with infrastruce alone.

Next time my buddy's wife takes the bus to work at the General, I'll get her to do a survey of how many of her fellow commuters are also alcohol-induced captive riders

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes there are people commuting. Maybe alcholics who lost their license for example.

Weird take to double down on. You seem to actually be against maximizing accessibility of health care.

Would be interested to see how much of the hospital's capital budget would have to go towards the massive parking garages needed to accommodate 30 - 45% more car visits. And we thought the Civic garage was big!

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by phil235

Weird take to double down on. You seem to actually be against maximizing accessibility of health care.

Would be interested to see how much of the hospital's capital budget would have to go towards the massive parking garages needed to accommodate 30 - 45% more car visits. And we thought the Civic garage was big!

I think that's been plainly obvious for a while now - and not just as it pertains to healthcare. My confusion lies in what they expect to happen, traffc-wise, if we continue making decisions that shift the modal share more in favour of cars over transit. It's not like we lack plenty of examples of the consequences faced by big cities who failed to act when they were on the cusp of it becoming too late (like Ottawa).