Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

"If only Québécois spoke like Parisians, I'd learn and use French all day for my life here!"

Seriously believed by NO unilingual person in Montreal originally from a former British colony in the developing world, or any person originally from the ROC - EVER.

[Acajack]

"If only African-Americans were taught to speak better English in their schools, maybe their place in the country would be better recognized and they'd be more respected."

[Hecate]

Pretty sure he meant better French education across Canada and not in Québec. lol, but we know you, like most Québécois, don’t care about Francophones in Canada outside of Québec. Which is quite sad really, This is your country too.

Anyway looking good for your yes vote… here’s to hoping!

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"If only Québécois spoke like Parisians, I'd learn and use French all day for my life here!"

Seriously believed by NO unilingual person in Montreal originally from a former British colony in the developing world, or any person originally from the ROC - EVER.

"Actually I don't understand Quebec French, I learned Parisian French".

I have heard this one a few times, and while never true (Parisians in Montreal do not do this), it was also never said in RP English. Which the implied value judgment would seem to require.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Pretty sure he meant better French education across Canada and not in Québec. lol, but we know you, like most Québécois, don’t care about Francophones in Canada outside of Québec. Which is quite sad really, This is your country too.

Anyway looking good for your yes vote… here’s to hoping!

I am actually a francophone from outside Quebec, born and raised. Lived there for over 25 years. Still have most of my family there. But thanks for the advice.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

"Actually I don't understand Quebec French, I learned Parisian French".

I have heard this one a few times, and while never true (Parisians in Montreal do not do this), it was also never said in RP English. Which the implied value judgment would seem to require.

I actually switch to a rapid-fire Parisian French accent when I hear people say this.

I'll let you guess how they generally fare with that.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

"Actually I don't understand Quebec French, I learned Parisian French".

I have heard this one a few times, and while never true (Parisians in Montreal do not do this), it was also never said in RP English. Which the implied value judgment would seem to require.

In fairness Quebec has strong dialects not present in English Canada. Newfoundland likely only exception. Non native speakers have trouble understanding Scots or Texans so it is a real thing. Quebec Standard English is of course not widely different but most Quebecers speak a dialect at home.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Pretty sure he meant better French education across Canada and not in Québec. lol, but we know you, like most Québécois, don’t care about Francophones in Canada outside of Québec. Which is quite sad really, This is your country too.

Anyway looking good for your yes vote… here’s to hoping!

No, I meant Quebec. High rates of functional illiteracy and poor command of the French language by less educated young people. Add constant exposure to English language pop culture and social media and you have a recipe for trouble.

I was definitely not referring to accents or "Parisian" French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

In fairness Quebec has strong dialects not present in English Canada. Newfoundland likely only exception. Non native speakers have trouble understanding Scots or Texans so it is a real thing. Quebec Standard English is of course not widely different but most Quebecers speak a dialect at home.

Perhaps (maybe) but there is a difference between listening to rapid-fire stand-up comedy in a local variety of a language and simply being able to interact with service staff.

Even someone from deep in the jungle in the Congo who speaks French can fairly easily communicate with a waitress in Lac-St-Jean, right after stepping off the plane.

I have quite a few members of my family who speak very unique Acadien dialects that are even further removed from standard French than anything you could find in Quebec, and they interact with people from anywhere in the global francophonie just fine.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, I meant Quebec. High rates of functional illiteracy and poor command of the French language by less educated young people. Add constant exposure to English language pop culture and social media and you have a recipe for trouble.

I was definitely not referring to accents or "Parisian" French.

Even so, as I mentioned, Americans saying things like "Imma" and committing all sorts of other linguistic crimes against standard English doesn't reduce the language's attractivity.

I am sure tons of other well-entrenched unthreatened languages around the world have their grammatical incongruities.

Doesn't hurt them one bit.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I actually switch to a rapid-fire Parisian French accent when I hear people say this.

I'll let you guess how they generally fare with that.

sans déc!

[kool maudit]

In any case, the French you hear on an everyday basis in Montreal is absolutely intelligible to speakers of Metropolitan French. A lot of European languages have dialects that are farther from their "capital-speak" than even a very rural joual is from Radio-France.

[thebasketballgeek]

The québécois accent is so overblown. I actually am starting to find it easier to understand then the « Parisian accent » whatever that means. Once you figure out how to listen to the extra nasal vowels present in the french here and pay enough attention to the diphthongs, it becomes a nice melodic rhythm, compared to the rapid fire, rather monotone standard French in comparison. Either way, I would like to believe even the thick accent in Rimouski is quite intelligible to speakers of metropolitan french. The accents that seem to give me more trouble these days are when I listen to someone from Marseille speak and Haitian Creole.

And ik a lot of québécois won’t like to hear this, but the crazy number of anglicismes has helped me tremendously. It always amuses me when y’all speak French and casually add an English sentence or phrase then carry on back in French.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

And ik a lot of québécois won’t like to hear this, but the crazy number of anglicismes has helped me tremendously. It always amuses me when y’all speak French and casually add an English sentence or phrase then carry on back in French.

I still think Quebecois isn't too bad on the Anglicisme front.. you hear a lot more in France.

There's so many Anglicismes and faux amis thrown around across the pond, that it's starting to remind me of Japanese. The former you'd pronounce with a cute French accent, and the latter with a kawaii voice.

Originally Posted by kool maudit

In any case, the French you hear on an everyday basis in Montreal is absolutely intelligible to speakers of Metropolitan French. A lot of European languages have dialects that are farther from their "capital-speak" than even a very rural joual is from Radio-France.

Yep this whole Quebec accent thing is overblown, especially in Montreal.

New Brunswick is where you'd hear the funkiest accents.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I still think Quebecois isn't too bad on the Anglicisme front.. you hear a lot more in France.

There's so many Anglicismes and faux amis thrown around across the pond, that it's starting to remind me of Japanese. The former you'd pronounce with a cute French accent, and the latter with a kawaii voice.

.

Not sure who uses more anglicismes if we were to count, but one thing is certain is that people in Quebec and people in France tend to use different ones.

A lot of theirs sound very illogical and even comical to us.

Like "footing" for "jogging"... really?

[Acajack]

As it happens, I was at an extended extended family gathering over the weekend, and one guy I met for the first time was a Newfoundlander - he is the boyfriend of one of my siblings' in-laws. Anyway, I really had to be attentive to understand what he was saying. And he wasn't from some isolated outport but from a small town in the greater St. John's area.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A lot of theirs sound very illogical and even comical to us.

Like "footing" for "jogging"... really?

Or even different genders, I recall hearing in Paris un job, but in Montreal it's always une job.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

40% Yes, 52% No is considered good? Ouch.

A year ago I would have said that separation was somewhat likely in the medium term, due to irreconcilable differences on immigration policy preferences between Quebec and the ROC. The Canadian immigration policy pursued under Trudeau puts Quebec in a position where they have to either:

a) accept the degradation of the French language within Quebec; or
b) accept Quebec's share of the population declining.

Both of which are a very alarming prospects for Quebec.

And this is very different from the constitutional battles of the 1980s that caused the last separatist push; as that one mostly was resolved simply through a federal policy of leaving Quebec alone. It's notable that support for independence in Quebec reached its lowest levels during Harper's time as PM (despite Harper not being particularly popular in Quebec) as Harper pursued a policy of non-interference in provincial affairs which limited national grievances. Immigration is more fundamental and can't be solved through that "benign neglect" approach.

However, it appears that the dam has burst on immigration in the ROC and now public sentiment is in favour of less immigration. So in the medium term Canada may very well return to a pre-2015 immigration policy that resolves this key Quebec grievance.

Agree with your sentiments, and one of the NP columnists has espoused the same re: Trudeau creating the winning conditions through his reckless immigration policies:

Tasha Kheiriddin: High immigration could see Quebec emigrate from Canada
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/tasha-k...on-could-see-quebec-emigrate-from-canada

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"If only Québécois spoke like Parisians, I'd learn and use French all day for my life here!"

Seriously believed by NO unilingual person in Montreal originally from a former British colony in the developing world, or any person originally from the ROC - EVER.

Originally Posted by Acajack

"If only African-Americans were taught to speak better English in their schools, maybe their place in the country would be better recognized and they'd be more respected."

These posts just feel like you are the guy with the defribulator for this thread.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

In fairness Quebec has strong dialects not present in English Canada. Newfoundland likely only exception. Non native speakers have trouble understanding Scots or Texans so it is a real thing. Quebec Standard English is of course not widely different but most Quebecers speak a dialect at home.

Québec French is easier to understand than Scottish English. I'd say for a Francophone of Europe it is the same level of difficulty as for a North American English speaker trying to understand Australian English. Scottish English is way harder to understand, especially working-class Scots, which is almost a different language.