Employment in Canada

[Build.It]

Does anyone have any experience hiring people on Open Work Permits? As far as I can tell there's basically no extra work that the employer needs to do when compared to hiring a PR or citizen, but thought I would ask the question.

Also how is the job market for job hunters these days versus 2019 for example? (Not comparing it to 2021/22 as that was a one-off)

I posted an ad recently and all the best candidates are here on Open Work Permits, and all the Canadian applicants either had major red flags, or just came across as entitled brats in comparison. The new arrivals for the most part are humble, want to prove themselves and just want to work. Pretty easy choice who I'd rather have working for me, I just need to make sure I know the rules.

[Xelebes]

A lot of Canadian applicants are practically uncoached, and those who are being coached have red flags (disability, homelessness, criminal records.) Those applying on Open Work Permits are probably being coached through consultants in their native countries, so it is probably prudent to recognize the bias that is going on.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by Build.It

..all the Canadian applicants either had major red flags, or just came across as entitled brats in comparison. The new arrivals for the most part are humble, want to prove themselves and just want to work...

Could you give some more detail on what's wrong with the Canadian applicants?

I think it would be great to prioritize hiring (helping) Canadians who are struggling to pay rent and buy groceries + keeping the money within our own country/economy. Seems like a better option than hiring someone who will likely 1) send the money to a different country where it will be spent or 2) they'll stay here temporarily before they return to their home country, again taking their earned money and talent outside of Canada.

EDIT: I recently finished my MSc and am looking for work. I can assure everyone the job market is currently TERRIBLE.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Could you give some more detail on what's wrong with the Canadian applicants?

I think it would be great to prioritize hiring (helping) Canadians who are struggling to pay rent and buy groceries + keeping the money within our own country/economy. Seems like a better option than hiring someone who will likely 1) send the money to a different country where it will be spent or 2) they'll stay here temporarily before they return to their home country, again taking their earned money and talent outside of Canada.

EDIT: I recently finished my MSc and am looking for work. I can assure everyone the job market is currently TERRIBLE.

Well for low skilled jobs the Canadian applicants are usually filled with red flags. (my recent experience is for basic labour and for a nanny) Basically anybody who has work ethic and can show up everyday sober goes to at least some kind of college in Canada. Sure there are exceptions. teenagers and college students sometimes an exception but until recently they had white collar options in many cases.

I think we should stop the fake students coming in which would require increasing wages for the jobs I am talking about to attract people who can just work in a clothing store in a mall for the same pay but for an individual to either take less reliable workers or pay above market rate is an unrealistic expectation.

[WhipperSnapper]

There are Canadians working shitty labour intensive jobs that probably wouldn't mind to trade them for an easy retail job. They just have given up applying for the less labour intensive jobs that attract international students.

[Build.It]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Could you give some more detail on what's wrong with the Canadian applicants?

I think it would be great to prioritize hiring (helping) Canadians who are struggling to pay rent and buy groceries + keeping the money within our own country/economy. Seems like a better option than hiring someone who will likely 1) send the money to a different country where it will be spent or 2) they'll stay here temporarily before they return to their home country, again taking their earned money and talent outside of Canada.

EDIT: I recently finished my MSc and am looking for work. I can assure everyone the job market is currently TERRIBLE.

I'm running a business, not a charity. If I have $X to spend on an employee, I'm going to give that job to whoever can get that job done the most reliably. Their background is irrelevant and what the decide to with their salary is none of my business.

In this case, all the Canadian applicants were either less skilled, or had an attitude problem. And this isn't an entry level low wage job either - it's a mid-level white collar job with a fair amount of autonomy.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Build.It

I'm running a business, not a charity.

What makes you think a charity is about providing things to the poor?

[WhipperSnapper]

Hard to say without knowing the job however, cultures are different with foreign workers which can cause issues with positions with autonomy and presumably you profit from the Canadian economy so wages reinvested in that economy isn't something that should be completely brushed off

I just get this vibe that the terms of this employment contract generally sucks. It's not all on you. It's just the situation in Canada with the high cost of living and surplus labour pool where there is always someone willing to work for less. Likewise there's always ridiculous low ball offers for work contracts in which every small business must operate.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

What makes you think a charity is about providing things to the poor?

Not all charities provide for the poor, but all private individuals that prioritize providing for the poor at the expense of a reduced or negative return on investment are kind of by definition running a type of charity. There's nothing wrong with that, but you shouldn't expect someone to do it either.

[lio45]

Last time I hired at decent scale was during 2020, and back then the market was really in favor of employers.

I agree that if we make it legal for you to hire foreigners, then you will observe that it's in your interest to do just that. Labor laws normally exist for a reason -- we can't trust a purely capitalistic system to always do the "greater good" thing.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

EDIT: I recently finished my MSc and am looking for work. I can assure everyone the job market is currently TERRIBLE.

If the government listens to Nite's advice, then their fix for this will be to import millions of new suckers with a pulse, knowing that each new warm body we bring in will automatically create a net +0.2 new jobs.

Under that logic, if there aren't enough jobs right now, it's because we haven't imported enough new suckers yet!

[casper]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Does anyone have any experience hiring people on Open Work Permits? As far as I can tell there's basically no extra work that the employer needs to do when compared to hiring a PR or citizen, but thought I would ask the question.

Not a lawyer or accountant. So take what I say with a grain of salt. But I have done this several times.

All temporary SIN numbers start with 9. That is how you can identify them. Put a copy of their work permit in your file and make a note of the expiry date. Other than that there is not much more. If there are any specific restrictions it should be on the permit. It is illegal to hire someone without a valid permit, having a copy shows you did your due diligence.

When it comes time to renew their permit, you may have to write a letter saying they have a job. It is up to them to do the renewal. At some point they may decide to apply into some stream to convert it into a permanent permit. At that point they will be issued a new SIN that does not start with a 9.

As for the question of immigrants vrs native grads. It goes both ways. I think there are great and bad employees out of both categories.

[Build.It]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Hard to say without knowing the job however, cultures are different with foreign workers which can cause issues with positions with autonomy and presumably you profit from the Canadian economy so wages reinvested in that economy isn't something that should be completely brushed off.

Most peoples money gets spent on living expenses, ie within the country.

However even they saved and sent their entire income out of country, that has about 0.000001% influence on my prosperity from a macro standpoint.

Me overpaying for an underperforming employee has a 100% influence on my prosperity though.

Originally Posted by casper

Not a lawyer or accountant. So take what I say with a grain of salt. But I have done this several times........

Appreciate this Casper! Great info.