National Economy

[casper]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

I would imagine that the implementation of additional spill response infrastructure and capabilities was likely part of the many conditions of approval required for the pipeline.

Yes it was. There was a significant expansion in the number of response vessels on the coast. That includes both within Vancouver harbor and outside.

They also did some administrative changes.to the protocols around escort of the ships. The pilots as an example stay with the ship until it reaches race rock instead of getting off closer to Victoria. That change means pilots leave the ship by helicopter.

Don't get me wrong, the province has been demanding, as it should. But it is still an extra risk we are taking on.

[Acajack]

https://x.com/stats_feed/status/1795...d4qwX6T3Q&s=19

[goodgrowth]

Emigration to the U.S. hits a 10-year high as tens of thousands of Canadians head south

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...high-1.7218479

Census says 126,340 people left Canada for the U.S. in 2022, a 70 per cent increase over a decade ago

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Emigration to the U.S. hits a 10-year high as tens of thousands of Canadians head south

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...high-1.7218479

Looks like the surge is talented Canadians voting with their feet to exit Trudeau's Canada. Matched by what's happening in my own social circles, I'd imagine the stampede these couple of years will only continue to increase.

The sad part is Trudeau's desperate attempt to back-fill this outflow with an deluge of low quality fake students from a very specific region of South Asia won't make up for this brain drain.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Emigration to the U.S. hits a 10-year high as tens of thousands of Canadians head south

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...high-1.7218479

Was there ever a clearer example of “voting with their feet”?

[north 42]

I’d take Trudeau over Trump any day! Good luck people.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by north 42

I’d take Trudeau over Trump any day! Good luck people.

Trump is a nut but he didn’t destroy the economy.

Taking trump over Trudeau would be a on a personal basis - if you are white and of decent income you would probably take trump any day. Person of colour, gay, or poor? Maybe less so.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Trump is a nut but he didn’t destroy the economy.

Taking trump over Trudeau would be a on a personal basis - if you are white and of decent income you would probably take trump any day. Person of colour, gay, or poor? Maybe less so.

Do you think a 4 year term is enough to meaningfully steer the biggest economy in the world?

Trump's huge tax cuts put the US into massive deficit territory, which they are still in. It dwarfs Canadian spending even as a % of their massive GDP.

[Innsertnamehere]

Yet on a personal basis the US economy is exploding still, and a bit part of that was the corporate tax cuts.

Federal deficits are insane but the US being the reserve currency seems to give the Fed a bit more room on that front than other nations.

The last 6-7 years has been a complete boom time for the US economy with GDP per capita and median incomes exploding after decades of relative stagnation in the economy.

Is that 100% attributable to Trump? No. He didn't get in the way of it though.

Comparatively I would say Trudeau has a lot of big reasons as to why the Canadian economy is floundering. He's had more time to impact it than Trump did too.. but still. A lot of his governments policy choices like megasized immigration, federal EAs for resource projects which are almost impossible to clear, capital gains tax hikes, bans on foreign capital in real estate, etc. are driving away capital and investment and shrinking the economic pot.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yet on a personal basis the US economy is exploding still, and a bit part of that was the corporate tax cuts.

If you believe in trickle down maybe. The bottom line is the economy is being pumped by all of that deficit spending.

I'm not taking away from the US. Underestimate them at your own peril. They continue to innovate with the best in the world.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Is that 100% attributable to Trump? No. He didn't get in the way of it though.

No, but he definitely continued the widening wealth disparity.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by north 42

I’d take Trudeau over Trump any day! Good luck people.

According to that CBC article, many don't share your view:

....Terminesi said his phone has been ringing off the hook for the last 18 months with calls from Canadians wanting to move to sunny Florida.

"'With Trudeau, I have to get out of here,' that's what people tell me. They say to me, 'Marco, who do I have to talk to to get out of here?'" Terminesi told CBC News.

"There's a lot of hatred, a lot of pissed-off calls. It was really shocking for me to hear all of this.

"And I'm not sure all of these people are moving for the right reason. People are saying, 'I hate the politics here, I'm uprooting my whole family and moving down,' and I say, 'Well, that problem could be solved in a year or two.'"....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...high-1.7218479

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yet on a personal basis the US economy is exploding still, and a bit part of that was the corporate tax cuts.

Federal deficits are insane but the US being the reserve currency seems to give the Fed a bit more room on that front than other nations.

The last 6-7 years has been a complete boom time for the US economy with GDP per capita and median incomes exploding after decades of relative stagnation in the economy.

Is that 100% attributable to Trump? No. He didn't get in the way of it though.

Comparatively I would say Trudeau has a lot of big reasons as to why the Canadian economy is floundering. He's had more time to impact it than Trump did too.. but still. A lot of his governments policy choices like megasized immigration, federal EAs for resource projects which are almost impossible to clear, capital gains tax hikes, bans on foreign capital in real estate, etc. are driving away capital and investment and shrinking the economic pot.

Trump and MAGA-ites would strongly disagree.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by north 42

I’d take Trudeau over Trump any day! Good luck people.

Why is this an issue? Canadians are moving down to the US for much more practical reasons than which leader resides in Ottawa or DC.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Trump and MAGA-ites would strongly disagree.

US incomes exploded in the 2014-2020 range at a rate not seen in decades. COVID put a damper on it for a few years, but my understanding is that it's returned to growth again.

Canada falling so far behind the US is less to do with Canadian incomes falling (which they are now, but not initially), but US incomes exploding while Canada didn't follow.

The very fact that the US isn't seeing the same economic headwinds the rest of the world right now speaks to this. Most of the globe is facing a recession and the US economy keeps on trucking, albeit not at the pace pre-pandemic.

I don't think this is entirely attributable to Trump and republican economic policy - I do think it's part of it though. At the very least Trump hasn't gotten in the way of the economy.

Trump is hugely problematic for other reasons relating to what he means for the health of US democracy, government stability, foreign relations, etc... but his Presidency presided over one of the largest periods of economic growth in a lonnnnnnggg time in the US.

To be clear I would never, ever, ever vote for the man. He's terrible news overall - just not on the economic front, or at least he wasn't for his first (and hopefully last!) presidency.

[MonkeyRonin]

The good times just keep on rolling: Canadian GDP per capita has now fallen back to 2014 levels - a full lost decade of economic growth:


https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-...onomic-growth/



Meanwhile, our GDP per capita disparity with the US is the largest on record (at least as far back as 1965, the earliest data readily available) - and growing:


https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-...on-record-rbc/

[theman23]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

The good times just keep on rolling: Canadian GDP per capita has now fallen back to 2014 levels - a full lost decade of economic growth:


https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-...onomic-growth/



Meanwhile, our GDP per capita disparity with the US is the largest on record (at least as far back as 1965, the earliest data readily available) - and growing:


https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-...on-record-rbc/

Kind of amazing how all of these indicators started turning for the worse in 2015-2016. I guess the LPC is just unlucky

[casper]

Originally Posted by theman23

Kind of amazing how all of these indicators started turning for the worse in 2015-2016. I guess the LPC is just unlucky

Well the US has the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, Inflation Reduction Act, Green Infrastructure Act and a few others have caused the US to invest in green infrastructure. That has had a strong stimulus effect. But most of it has been financed through borrowing. Borrowing at levels that Canadian would never tolerate in Canada.

Just look at the objection from people on this board to the liberals matching the US program to attract a few car battery plants to Canada. Image the outrage if we were doing that across the board like the US.

Canada chose a more free-market friendly approach to the transition off carbon. We used a carbon tax and let the market drive the change. The US has the government more actively involved in managing the transition and directing private industry.

The US has also been focused on repatriating manufacturing from China and has become very anti-trade with China. We are still more open to trade with China. Something I think we should also look at correctly.

Yes, Trump is no friend of the free market. He is highly interventionist and anti-free trade. He worked to limit trade. Biden was a bit more selected but still did not remove trade limits on China. Biden has been very selective in reducing some of the Trump trade restrictions.

As for Canadian going to the US that should be expect, the US economy is struggling to find people.

Even on the southern border (where it is mostly lower skill illegal immigration) that is at record levels. Should be expected, is not the flow illegal immigration correlated to unemployment levels in the US?

[Truenorth00]

^ The US ran deficits to fund the building of industry and infrastructure and defence buildup (ultimately industrial spending). Canada ran deficits to give old people bigger pensions. That's the difference. Again, the Liberals racked up $100B in total deficits before COVID. Very little of it was new money for infrastructure, industrial development or defence. Must of it was for social programs including CCB and increased OAS entitlements.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

^ The US ran deficits to fund the building of industry and infrastructure and defence buildup (ultimately industrial spending). Canada ran deficits to give old people bigger pensions. That's the difference. Again, the Liberals racked up $100B in total deficits before COVID. Very little of it was new money for infrastructure, industrial development or defence. Must of it was for social programs including CCB and increased OAS entitlements.

This is partially true but also a bit unfair. We spent more on a few battery plants than all the increase under Trudeau of OAS (I guess the 67 back to 65 aside)

But all that spending is only a few months of the Covid spending. So stopping that a few months earlier would have made up for all the spending.
I know I have a bugaboo for CCB and you for OAS but we have to admit between the two most Canadians have benefited.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

^ The US ran deficits to fund the building of industry and infrastructure and defence buildup (ultimately industrial spending). Canada ran deficits to give old people bigger pensions. That's the difference. Again, the Liberals racked up $100B in total deficits before COVID. Very little of it was new money for infrastructure, industrial development or defence. Must of it was for social programs including CCB and increased OAS entitlements.

Have you seen how much social security in the U.S. had led to and will be leading to much more debt? Canada is borrowing much less per capita. Should we be borrowing more?