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  #881  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 6:25 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Cool!
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  #882  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 5:58 PM
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https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/burnabynow/...y-phasing.JPG;w=960;h=640;bgcolor=000000

I am trying to understand the layout of these buildings. It shows Tower One in line with Lumina Eclipse. Isn't this where the park is? This makes no sense to me. Are the drawings incorrect, or did the city allow them to change their plans and cut more into the park than what was originally proposed?
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  #883  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 6:47 PM
madog222 madog222 is offline
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post


I am trying to understand the layout of these buildings. It shows Tower One in line with Lumina Eclipse. Isn't this where the park is? This makes no sense to me. Are the drawings incorrect, or did the city allow them to change their plans and cut more into the park than what was originally proposed?
That diagram doesn't seem to correctly represent Lumina. But yes, a fifth tower was added to phase 3 at some point since this was first proposed almost a decade ago pushing the developed area south.

This is more correct:
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Map in a Burnaby Now article shows pedestrian bridge over the railway tracks.


https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/ne...mes-coming-to-burnabys-brentwood-8637619

Last edited by madog222; May 31, 2024 at 7:08 PM.
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  #884  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by madog222 View Post
That diagram doesn't seem to correctly represent Lumina. But yes, a fifth tower was added to phase 3 at some point since this was first proposed almost a decade ago pushing the developed area south.

This is more correct:
that's a shame so the city gave up more Parkland to cram more towers... and the developer cannot even get the renderings correct.
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  #885  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 8:41 PM
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I’d rather more housing
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  #886  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 9:37 PM
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I’d rather more housing
A never ending problem.
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  #887  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
that's a shame so the city gave up more Parkland to cram more towers... and the developer cannot even get the renderings correct.
looking at the 2013 original rezoning, I don't think the park is any smaller. When four towers were proposed the area for development extended slightly further east before the new park area, and has been slightly reconfigured to add to the park to the east, and extend Phase 3 slightly further south so that the towers can be staggered and pushed to the edges of the development area so that five can be built.

Phase 2 was initially proposed as 2 towers, and now consists of 3 towers. Burnaby's zoning has changed since the inital rezoning and now allows greater densities in exchange for below market or market rental. It has added 2 towers to the scheme overall, and greater height to some of the market towers, in exchange for rental units (including 254 below market in Phase 3) that weren't initially contemplated in 2013.
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  #888  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
looking at the 2013 original rezoning, I don't think the park is any smaller. When four towers were proposed the area for development extended slightly further east before the new park area, and has been slightly reconfigured to add to the park to the east, and extend Phase 3 slightly further south so that the towers can be staggered and pushed to the edges of the development area so that five can be built.
Its very confusing and who knows which drawing is correct because they all show completely different layouts. You would think, the drawing with the separation between towers would be correct... if so, it cuts out a huge chunk of the park.

Last edited by madog222; Jun 1, 2024 at 8:04 PM. Reason: Fix quote tags
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  #889  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 11:25 PM
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The park would be a dedication to a separate legal lot, so they would not be allowed to build on it.

I think what you are seeing is the green space on the private land between the towers being diminished. Park looks the exact same size to me.
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  #890  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
Its very confusing and who knows which drawing is correct because they all show completely different layouts. You would think, the drawing with the separation between towers would be correct... if so, it cuts out a huge chunk of the park.
I think you're mistaken. The park always had a 'chunk out' for Phase 3. See Page 15 of the 2013 rezoning master plan. The plans have evolved, and where four towers were intended, now there are five, but the overall Master Plan had the same area of park, and development (but now at a higher density of development).

Last edited by madog222; Jun 1, 2024 at 8:05 PM. Reason: Fix quote tags
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  #891  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 11:50 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
that's a shame so the city gave up more Parkland to cram more towers... and the developer cannot even get the renderings correct.
The 1996 plan mentions 6 acre school and 9 acre park site.

The Phase 3 report says Concord is transferring 10 acres with an additional 3.19 acres owned by the city.
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  #892  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I think you're mistaken. The park always had a 'chunk out' for Phase 3. See Page 15 of the 2013 rezoning master plan. The plans have evolved, and where four towers were intended, now there are five, but the overall Master Plan had the same area of park, and development (but now at a higher density of development).
The drawing still doesn't make sense to me ... But I guess it doesn't matter.. just wish developers had to stick with their original master plans. How can one be confident buying a place in one of these masterplans when they are constantly changing their plans. And the agrument we need more housing is a never ending problem...These are luxury towers not deisgned for fixing a housing problem. The only ones who really benefit from further densifying is the city and developers....

Last edited by madog222; Jun 1, 2024 at 8:06 PM. Reason: Fix quote tags
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  #893  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
The drawing still doesn't make sense to me ... But I guess it doesn't matter.. just wish developers had to stick with their original master plans. How can one be confident buying a place in one of these masterplans when they are constantly changing their plans. And the agrument we need more housing is a never ending problem...These are luxury towers not deisgned for fixing a housing problem. The only ones who really benefit from further densifying is the city and developers....
In Phase 3, four of the towers will be strata. In the 2013 Master Plan they were going to be 25 to 45 storeys high. Burnaby's Rental Use Housing Policy was introduced in 2020. "New multi-family residential rezoning in Burnaby now requires the inclusion of affordable rental units." As a result Concord were allowed taller condo towers - now 38 to 50 storeys - but they have to build a 27 storey below market rental tower with 254 apartments.

The new policy changed a lot of Master Planned projects in Burnaby. Concord Metrotown is taller, and has rental units. Some projects are providing a podium with non-market units. Some are providing a six-storey non-market building alongside. All of the new rental units are directly improving the rental housing shortage in Burnaby. The condo towers are taller too, so there will be more market units than in the original plans, manu of them many years old (like this one).

Last edited by madog222; Jun 1, 2024 at 8:07 PM. Reason: Fix quote tags
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  #894  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 7:16 PM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is offline
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
The drawing still doesn't make sense to me ... But I guess it doesn't matter.. just wish developers had to stick with their original master plans. How can one be confident buying a place in one of these masterplans when they are constantly changing their plans. And the agrument we need more housing is a never ending problem...These are luxury towers not deisgned for fixing a housing problem. The only ones who really benefit from further densifying is the city and developers....
Your logic is rather odd.
Just because your think the (housing) problem is,.... "never ending" does that mean we shouldn't nevertheless be trying to solve it, or deal with it?

Car accident deaths from people not wearing seatbelts still occur at very high rates despite seat-belt laws and requirements on both car manufacturers and drivers being instituted several decades ago. By your logic we could argue it's a "never ending problem" despite our best efforts to deal with it and therefore shouldn't bother or put needless pressure on car manufacturers which increases the costs for car buyers and so on and so forth.

Yet we DO know that seat belt laws DO work because after they were introduced, the number of deaths from people not wearing the seat belts during car accidents dropped precipitously.
Do people still forget or neglect wear their seatbelts? Of course they do. We're human.
Hence the reason we still enforce those laws by ticketing drivers without their seatbelts on and any car manufacturers that fall short on their manufacturing safety standards to have proper seat belts available.

By the same vein we're never going to have a situation we live in where there's a ZERO housing problem when we've completely dealt with lack of housing or housing affordability. That ship has sailed several decades ago.
What we now know is that not attempting to deal with the problem has only succeeded in making it worse.

Developers being the business people they are have a desire to make (more) money.
What a shocker! And the cities for their part have a desire to deal with a public problem using all the tools available to them including changing housing policy and zoning laws to take advantage of that desire for more profit and money to add more housing supply that is badly needed as one of the solutions to dealing with - not (totally) "solving" - but just dealing with and getting a grasp on the housing problem.
As a side benefit, the public also gets better and more amenities as part of the change in the amenities (or amenity contributions) required to be provided by those developers as part of their developments or adjacent to them. More and bigger public parks, recreation and community centers, street and public infrastructure - all of which would otherwise require public funds to address (i.e. more tax burden on everyone).

I can't think of a better way for municipal administrations to take advantage of the free market system (developers' desire for a bigger profit margin) to try to help address a public problem using public policy that benefits everyone.

(Which also questions your claim that nobody benefits but the city (by which I'm inferring you meant the administration and not the public itself),.... and the developers.
What about all the people getting access to more affordable housing who couldn't before?
Or even of the ones that could and who live in the condo units, getting better public aminities and parks and neighbourhoods to live in?)

And masterplans change all the time.
And they used to, even long before the current housing laws and density restrictions changed.
To imagine that something that envisions a project seven, ten maybe even 15 years from a full build-out will never get changed or altered in the interregnum, is a little bit naive.
They (the developers) are constantly reacting to changing market conditions and pressures themselves along with their own changing internal priorities, regardless of any change to housing laws or public policy.

Last edited by madog222; Jun 1, 2024 at 8:06 PM. Reason: Fix quote tags
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  #895  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 8:09 PM
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I’ve edited the last handful of posts to fix the cascade of broken quote tags.
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  #896  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 11:46 PM
Redtruck Redtruck is offline
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The problem is complicated and largely stems from government policy, which I will not mention. I worry that developing at such a quick rate is not sustainable, and these areas are becoming too dense, much more dense than what was originally planned. It will be very interesting to see how livable this city will be in 50 years. We have a limited amount of space, and we cannot keep building forever; something will need to change. Vancouver will always be expensive because the more we build, the more people come here. I think right now we live in a pretty good time in Vancouver, but overpopulation will be a big problem in the coming years. This is my logic but time will tell.
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  #897  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2024, 1:43 AM
seamusmcduff seamusmcduff is offline
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The city of Vancouver has a density of 5,700/km2 and burnaby still only has a density of 3000/km2 at most. The following cities are considered very livable, and are far more dense than vancouver:

Athens and Brussels:7,500/km2
All of Singapore: 7,800/km2
Barcelona:16,000/km2
Paris proper: 18,900/km2

To reach these densities vancouvers population would need to increase to:

Athens and Brussels: 870,000 (31% increase)
All of Singapore: 903,000 (37% increase)
Barcelona: 1,800,000 (180% increase)
Paris proper: 2,190,000 (230% increase)

Keeping in mind that these numbers aren't a direct comparison since for the most part the populations of the above cities are a lot larger than Vancouver proper, it will be a while before vancouver let along burnaby starts reaching metropolis levels of density, especially when taking into consideration the other suburbs. Burnabys population increase would have to be massive to reach these numbers. We need to stop treating metro Vancouver like it's some exclusive quaint towns. It's one of the most desirable regions in the world. Even if Canada severely cut down our immigration rates vancouver would still facing housing pressures.

Part of the reason that vancouver feels so crammed in the first place is because we've restricted housing for so long, on such a large portion of the city's land. If for the last 20 years we had been planning well and allowing moderate density everywhere, we would have seen a lot more moderately sized housing units being built. Instead we've protected massive swaths for low density single family homes, and the crammed all the new housing into the tiny area it's allowed, resulting in these spaces being maximized as much as possible with tiny and barely liveable units. More than half of the city sits extremely underutilized while other parts are arguably becoming overdeveloped.

Last edited by seamusmcduff; Jun 2, 2024 at 1:59 AM.
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  #898  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2024, 9:29 PM
Burquitlaman Burquitlaman is offline
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
The problem is complicated and largely stems from government policy, which I will not mention. I worry that developing at such a quick rate is not sustainable, and these areas are becoming too dense, much more dense than what was originally planned. It will be very interesting to see how livable this city will be in 50 years. We have a limited amount of space, and we cannot keep building forever; something will need to change. Vancouver will always be expensive because the more we build, the more people come here. I think right now we live in a pretty good time in Vancouver, but overpopulation will be a big problem in the coming years. This is my logic but time will tell.
Metro Vancouver is not dense. Downtown Vancouver is barely dense. Half of Downtown Vancouver is still a ghost town at night. Burquitlam where I am seems like a village with condos to me. I disagree with every single thing you said. Vancouver does not have limited space, the opposite actually. It's way too big. Way too big. The fact that we need to get into a car to go anywhere is evidence of that. Most of this city from edge to edge is a wasteland of single family homes and American style suburbia wasted space (strip malls for example).

You can double Metro Vancouver's population and it'll still not be dense enough.
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  #899  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2024, 9:51 PM
Redtruck Redtruck is offline
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Originally Posted by Burquitlaman View Post
Metro Vancouver is not dense. Downtown Vancouver is barely dense. Half of Downtown Vancouver is still a ghost town at night. Burquitlam where I am seems like a village with condos to me. I disagree with every single thing you said. Vancouver does not have limited space, the opposite actually. It's way too big. Way too big. The fact that we need to get into a car to go anywhere is evidence of that. Most of this city from edge to edge is a wasteland of single family homes and American style suburbia wasted space (strip malls for example).
Those cities are not really comparable to Vancouver. A large part of the reason why Vancouver feels so crowded is because of the geography. Obviously, no one is going to agree with me on this forum, but I’ve talked to a lot of people about this, and many are starting to realize this issue. Vancouver is landlocked, and all traffic flows into it. North Vancouver is a perfect example of this. On the weekends, everyone goes into North Vancouver to visit the mountains, hiking trails, rivers, and ferry terminals. Every weekend, traffic is a mess. I cannot imagine what this will be like with another million people living here.

Last edited by madog222; Jun 2, 2024 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags
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  #900  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2024, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Redtruck View Post
[Those cities are not really comparable to Vancouver. A large part of the reason why Vancouver feels so crowded is because of the geography. Obviously, no one is going to agree with me on this forum, but I’ve talked to a lot of people about this, and many are starting to realize this issue. Vancouver is landlocked, and all traffic flows into it. North Vancouver is a perfect example of this. On the weekends, everyone goes into North Vancouver to visit the mountains, hiking trails, rivers, and ferry terminals. Every weekend, traffic is a mess. I cannot imagine what this will be like with another million people living here.
Vancouver can feel downright empty outside of the traffic and on the skytrain during peak hours. Downtown has some bustling areas, but the sidewalks aren't anywhere close to full. I can walk 5-6 blocks in the middle of the day in Mount Pleasant, and not see another person on the sidewalk.

When I think of Vancouver, crowded isn't a word that comes to mind.

What areas of the city feel really crowded to you?
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