[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

if there is any factual basis to this rumour, and, given the location of this land, I would have no qualms about suggesting Lafford as the probable buyer. This is immediately adjacent to the "Two Brothers" site, and, kitty corner to the Three Sisters. It would contribute to an overall high density downtown cluster of mixed use high rise apartment buildings. The results could be spectacular.

The Three Sisters will not be complete until 2026. Lafford will not turn his attention to the Two Bothers until the Three Sisters is nearly complete. The Two Brothers will take about three years to build. As such, if Lafford is the proponent, then I don't really see anything happening to fields 5/6 until 2029 at the earliest. This gives about five years to sort out what to do with the ballfield situation. In the meantime, I can't imagine any reason why they wouldn't allow the fields to continue to be used.

Would the nearby old Tim Horton's land he recently acquired be developed simultaneously? or do you have the impression this would only start after the Two Brothers is near completion?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

Would the nearby old Tim Horton's land he recently acquired be developed simultaneously? or do you have the impression this would only start after the Two Brothers is near completion?

Depends on how ambitious Lafford is.

As Lafford's properties build out, and his monthly rental income increases, this gives him more leverage to afford to do concurrent projects.

[MonctonRad]

A reliable source of mine has just come forward stating they have also heard this rumour.

This is starting to get legs. My spidey-senses are starting to tingle..........

[Sandbagger]

Originally Posted by lirette

It would be good to get an understanding on the usage of fields 5/6 currently and overall capacity around the city for softball.

If these 2 fields are still in high use then any plan to sell and develop this land should come with a plan to add some fields somewhere else in the city. I believe this site has held big time national tournaments for softball and as a city we shouldn't be sacrificing all of our recreation and park space as its something Moncton has had some success with.

There is already a shortage of fields for softball. They are well used. Just in Slo-Pitch alone there are 10 leagues and 80 teams. All fields in Moncton are used Monday to Friday and Sunday, with many tournaments on Saturdays, not to mention events like the Highland Games, etc. Fields 5&6 at HBS are basically the 2 best softball fields in town as they are the largest, well groomed and have lights.

To my knowledge these are the fields in use:
- Hal Betts (6 fields)
- Crandall University
- Wheeler Blvd next to Crowley Farm Rd
- Westbrook Circle
- Lakeburn in Dieppe by the old Airport

Then there is some spillover into Evergeen, Delong, CN Train Yard, UdeM.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A reliable source of mine has just come forward stating they have also heard this rumour.

This is starting to get legs. My spidey-senses are starting to tingle..........

If the two brothers includes the ball field 5/6 this project would be significantly larger than the three sisters. Potentially more than 2 buildings?

The 2 ball fields plus the adjacent land next to foundry street and skateboard park = 17.68 acres. In comparison the Three sisters is approx. 3.45 acres

tool used to calculate: https://www.mapdevelopers.com/area_finder.php

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

If the two brothers includes the ball field 5/6 this project would be significantly larger than the three sisters. Potentially more than 2 buildings?

Fields 5/6 are completely unrelated to the Two Brother project. This is something new.

Yes, this could be huge. You're probably looking at at least three buildings, maybe as many as five (in addition to the Three Sisters, the Two Brothers, and the Tim Horton's property).

Could we be looking at nearly a dozen high rises in this small section of town???

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Fields 5/6 are completely unrelated to the Two Brother project. This is something new.

Yes, this could be huge. You're probably looking at at least three buildings, maybe as many as five (in addition to the Three Sisters, the Two Brothers, and the Tim Horton's property).

Could we be looking at nearly a dozen high rises in this small section of town???

If Lafford is the buyer it seems like he's creating his own little downtown, with the first 2-3 floors typically reserved for retail this would create a nice shopping district!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

If Lafford is the buyer it seems like he's creating his own little downtown, with the first 2-3 floors typically reserved for retail this would create a nice shopping district!

Typically only ground level retail, but, yes, if carefully planned, there could be an interesting assortment of restaurants, small shops, galleries and urban format market stores.

With 10-11 buildings total, there could be the critical mass to draw people from the rest of the city in addition to local residents in the complexes.

[OliverD]

Wouldn't any sale of city land have to go through council?

[MonctonPerson]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Wouldn't any sale of city land have to go through council?

Yes, and nothing has publicly been approved matching this rumour.
If there has been a vote in private, it would need to eventually be ratified in public.

[Mr_Me]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

if there is any factual basis to this rumour, and, given the location of this land, I would have no qualms about suggesting Lafford as the probable buyer. This is immediately adjacent to the "Two Brothers" site, and, kitty corner to the Three Sisters. It would contribute to an overall high density downtown cluster of mixed use high rise apartment buildings. The results could be spectacular.

The Three Sisters will not be complete until 2026. Lafford will not turn his attention to the Two Bothers
until the Three Sisters is nearly complete. The Two Brothers will take about three years to build. As such, if Lafford is the proponent, then I don't really see anything happening to fields 5/6 until 2029 at the earliest. This gives about five years to sort out what to do with the ballfield situation. In the meantime, I can't imagine any reason why they wouldn't allow the fields to continue to be used.

The third sister may not be complete until 2026, but the concrete will be done in 2024. That is a long time for a crane to be sitting idle, especially how aggressive they are with their concrete schedule

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Mr_Me

The third sister may not be complete until 2026, but the concrete will be done in 2024. That is a long time for a crane to be sitting idle, especially how aggressive they are with their concrete schedule

Good point, although Lafford is currently using the Two Brothers site for storage and a marshalling facility. I could see them starting site prep sometime in late 2025. This could advance the construction schedule a bit.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonPerson

Yes, and nothing has publicly been approved matching this rumour.
If there has been a vote in private, it would need to eventually be ratified in public.

Indeed. We are committing the sin of getting ahead of ourselves.

All we really have to work on is a multicentric rumour, and, proof that fields 5/6 are not part of the same PID as the remainder of the Hal Betts complex.

It is fun to speculate though.

[MonctonPerson]

For what it's worth, a city staffer specifically told CBC in April that there is no intention to redevelop the ballfields.

Silliker said places such as the skateboard park and baseball fields would remain.
"The intention is not to redevelop those, but it's to enhance other areas that are underdeveloped or not well-programmed or are not well-planned," he said.

Audio here where he specifically rules out redevelopment of the ballfields around ~3:00: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-2...-going-take-closer-look-citys-waterfront

[MonctonRad]

This topic is now also under discussion over at Retail Talk & Share as well. They picked up on it from here.

One of the posters over there said that it was Lafford that purchased it, and, as part of the agreement, they have agreed to rebuild those two ball fields elsewhere in the city.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonPerson

For what it's worth, a city staffer specifically told CBC in April that there is no intention to redevelop the ballfields.

Audio here where he specifically rules out redevelopment of the ballfields around ~3:00: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-2...-going-take-closer-look-citys-waterfront

Very interesting. So, which is correct? The Moncton director of city planning, or the widespread rumours of a sale of a portion of the Hal Betts complex.

One would tend to believe Kevin Silliker over a flurry of unsubstantiated rumours. If there are concerned members of the softball community out there wanting clarification, the city may release a statement regarding their intentions.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very interesting. So, which is correct? The Moncton director of city planning, or the widespread rumours of a sale of a portion of the Hal Betts complex.

One would tend to believe Kevin Silliker over a flurry of unsubstantiated rumours. If there are concerned members of the softball community out there wanting clarification, the city may release a statement regarding their intentions.

Both can be correct. There's quite a bit of vacant land nearby that could have been Chinese-telephoned into 'they're selling the ballfields': https://imgur.com/a/fiRG2eQ

[jonny golden]

There's work being done at the Galco building on the corner of Main & King. Maybe they have a new tenant?

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonPerson

The dump was farther upstream between the causeway and the older Gunningsville Bridge (1976 imagery):


Image from here about the river and the landfill's legacy.

Prior to this one, the dump was on the right immediately when you came off the old bridge. I'm not sure if fields 5 & 6 are on top of it, but I'm pretty sure the other four are.

One would think that the purchaser would be aware, and that this would have been taken into consideration with any land sale transaction.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very interesting. So, which is correct? The Moncton director of city planning, or the widespread rumours of a sale of a portion of the Hal Betts complex.

One would tend to believe Kevin Silliker over a flurry of unsubstantiated rumours. If there are concerned members of the softball community out there wanting clarification, the city may release a statement regarding their intentions.

For the foreseeable future, I am going to treat this as a completely speculative and unsubstantiated rumour, and will not be commenting further on this unless some more convincing evidence becomes available. I am less happy about this rumour than I was about the Two Brothers when that rumour first surfaced.......