Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus | U/C

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Wow! Both the Broadway Subway and the Pattullo Bridge delayed… Good job BC!

Blah blah

This is the thread about the Broadway line construction. The article in the Hive lists some of the delays. The European based contractors have faced unexpected delays for various reasons, including materials shortages, and the complexity of trying to keep as much of Broadway operating while digging big holes underneath it.

None of the rest of your post has any relevance to this thread - and it's not as if you're even affected by the delay. How's that Japanese rail project going?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Changing City

...the complexity of trying to keep as much of Broadway operating while digging big holes underneath it.

Because the project has kept Broadway open, the impact of the delay is a lot less than it would have been otherwise.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Well, that's the last time we hire Acciona for anything...

[jollyburger]

I wonder when they knew they were going to be this late.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Well, that's the last time we hire Acciona for anything...

They were just announced as the preferred proponent to build the stations on the Surrey / Langley line. I don't know if that says anything about any blame for the delay on this project.

[Vancouver_Highrise]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I wonder when they knew they were going to be this late.

A long time ago .. at least since November

[Vancouver_Highrise]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

What exactly is going to take them over 3 years to do, considering the tunnels have already been bored? I only saw reasons why it was delayed but not exactly what's going to take them so long from here on out.

Can’t share the specifics

[madog222]

In October Daily Hive quoted the ministry saying it was delayed beyond Spring '26 and they would provide an updated date once tunneling is complete.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

They were just announced as the preferred proponent to build the stations on the Surrey / Langley line. I don't know if that says anything about any blame for the delay on this project.

Aren’t they being sued for their work on the North Shore wastewater plant by MetroVancouver?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Aren’t they being sued for their work on the North Shore wastewater plant by MetroVancouver?

Technically, they're being counter-sued by Metro. Acciona initiated court action for nearly $300m after they were removed from the contract. They claimed Metro Vancouver had provided an unsuitable site and "conflicting and error-ridden" construction specifications.

[nname]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Because the project has kept Broadway open, the impact of the delay is a lot less than it would have been otherwise.

Maybe that was the reason for the delay...

Wonder if it is possible for a phased opening - to open VCC to Cambie first, and Cambie to Arbutus at the later date. From the DailyHive article, it have something to do with the vehicle desk on the western section of the project?

Many people only care about connect Millennium Line to Canada Line anyways...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by nname

Wonder if it is possible for a phased opening - to open VCC to Cambie first, and Cambie to Arbutus at the later date.

That would complicate the shakedown phase of the project and the integration of the new section(s) into the automatic train control system, neither of which are trivial undertakings.

[nname]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

That would complicate the shakedown phase of the project and the integration of the new section(s) into the automatic train control system, neither of which are trivial undertakings.

Well, Millennium was opened in phase as well, after a delay. I would argue that extending a line for 3 stations would not be more complicated then starting a complete new line for just 2 stations (Sapperton and Braid), and it would be much useful then the 2 stations stub that operated for about 8 months.

As far as I remember, Evergreen extension was operated with 3 different patterns before the opening. First breaking the Millennium Line with train terminate at Lougheed and Production, then extend the testing to Burquitlam, then extend again to Lafarge for the full test after the tunnel is fully completed. Although the Burquitlam wasn't opened early, but maybe it was an option they could consider if the tunnel delay was more than a few months.

[jollyburger]

Maybe delay it to 2028 if Heidelberg Materials workers go on strike?

https://x.com/TeamstersStrike

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

What exactly is going to take them over 3 years to do, considering the tunnels have already been bored? I only saw reasons why it was delayed but not exactly what's going to take them so long from here on out.

The project's construction schedule is here.

It's all the other stuff that goes into building a subway. You know, laying track, building platforms, installing elevators and escalators, servicing the project with utilities, removing the traffic decks, closing all the holes, testing the trains, etc.

Perhaps if the TBM spoils conveyor belt didn't run through all the station excavations the project would be slightly further along, but I'm not sure how that could be avoided. Or perhaps if the project was cut-and-cover it would have been faster and we could have skipped the traffic decks, but that would have been extremely disruptive. Or perhaps if the project was elevated it would have been even faster, but that wasn't going to fly on the space-constrained Broadway corridor. Or perhaps if the project was an at-grade LRT it would have been even faster, but then the end result would not be nearly as transformative.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Over three years to finish a tunnel completed subway. Wow... simply wow.

Also no surprise they made this announcement on a Friday.

Yeah it's not even that long.

No way the Langley extension makes it's current timelines either.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Maybe delay it to 2028 if Heidelberg Materials workers go on strike?

https://x.com/TeamstersStrike

I've been hearing about this for months so I think we're past the "iffy" part. I don't have twitter so I dunno what that latest update is but I think we're fine for now.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

The project's construction schedule is here.

It's all the other stuff that goes into building a subway. You know, laying track, building platforms, installing elevators and escalators, servicing the project with utilities, removing the traffic decks, closing all the holes, testing the trains, etc.

Perhaps if the TBM spoils conveyor belt didn't run through all the station excavations the project would be slightly further along, but I'm not sure how that could be avoided. Or perhaps if the project was cut-and-cover it would have been faster and we could have skipped the traffic decks, but that would have been extremely disruptive. Or perhaps if the project was elevated it would have been even faster, but that wasn't going to fly on the space-constrained Broadway corridor. Or perhaps if the project was an at-grade LRT it would have been even faster, but then the end result would not be nearly as transformative.

I understand that this all takes time, but again, why wasn't this factored into its development in the first place? Translink has been building and extending Skytrain for decades now, so this isn't anyone's first rodeo. A two year delay is a pretty massive blow to a relatively short six station extension. I just don't understand how they got so far behind.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by giallo

I understand that this all takes time, but again, why wasn't this factored into its development in the first place? Translink has been building and extending Skytrain for decades now, so this isn't anyone's first rodeo. A two year delay is a pretty massive blow to a relatively short six station extension. I just don't understand how they got so far behind.

TransLink aren't involved with the development of the project. They take over once it's built. The Provincial Transportation Investment Corporation are managing the project, as they do for major investment projects. I think the contractors provide the initial estimate for how quickly the process will take, and they don't add much padding for anything unexpected (and it's a fixed price contract, so unless there's an agreed change to the project specifications, there's no wiggle room on the budget to speed things up. If it's a drop-dead 'must be completed on a specific date' project, then the bids will be a lot higher, or there's a risk of the contractor just walking off the project, which takes even longer and costs even more to reach completion).

With complex engineering projects it might be better to announce at the start of construction that the timeline is a best case scenario, and realistically it could take a couple of years longer. That's especially true for projects that rely on getting materials and specialist labour. We've seen significant delays in completion of residential towers where the developer's financial interests are in getting it finished, so the delays are widespread in construction at the moment. Unexpected episodes like the concrete strike add extra uncertainty, and things like that obviously can't be built into a project timeline.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Changing City

TransLink aren't involved with the development of the project. They take over once it's built. The Provincial Transportation Investment Corporation are managing the project, as they do for major investment projects. I think the contractors provide the initial estimate for how quickly the process will take, and they don't add much padding for anything unexpected (and it's a fixed price contract, so unless there's an agreed change to the project specifications, there's no wiggle room on the budget to speed things up. If it's a drop-dead 'must be completed on a specific date' project, then the bids will be a lot higher, or there's a risk of the contractor just walking off the project, which takes even longer and costs even more to reach completion).

With complex engineering projects it might be better to announce at the start of construction that the timeline is a best case scenario, and realistically it could take a couple of years longer. That's especially true for projects that rely on getting materials and specialist labour. We've seen significant delays in completion of residential towers where the developer's financial interests are in getting it finished, so the delays are widespread in construction at the moment. Unexpected episodes like the concrete strike add extra uncertainty, and things like that obviously can't be built into a project timeline.

Thanks for your response, CC. It sheds a bit more light on the variables.