BC Provincial Government Housing Policies 2023

[jollyburger]

My comments about West Vancouver were more targeted at previous rejections of housing on the Ambleside Safeway site (two 10-15 storey towers in the early 2000s) and the recent local plan that doesn't even have density close to existing apartments in the area that were built in the 50-80s (?). I guess if the NDP isn't around next year then all of this will be old news.

Sure there's zero incentive for West Vancouver land valuations to turn SFH into duplexes but it seems like the most logical area of any additional density in West Vancouver is Ambleside. Their Upper Lands plan is a decades long process and they'll get around 100 units from the MST/CLC Marine Drive project but who knows when they start that.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The City of Vancouver has its own Building Code; the requirements for secondary suites don't include sprinklers, for example, only a hard-wired alarm. That's a benefit of the Vancouver Charter.

Okay, wow, you got me. Is there a point you're making?

West Vancouver has tools, they just choose not to use them. They get no sympathy from me.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Okay, wow, you got me. Is there a point you're making?

West Vancouver has tools, they just choose not to use them. They get no sympathy from me.

Yes, the point is that the requirements are more onerous outside the City of Vancouver, and so owners are even less likely to want to add or legalize a suite. If the province is serious about encouraging more suites, maybe they should amend the BC Building code.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, the point is that the requirements are more onerous outside the City of Vancouver, and so owners are even less likely to want to add or legalize a suite. If the province is serious about encouraging more suites, maybe they should amend the BC Building code.

Agreed. And West Vancouver could lower fees and allow for two secondary suites if they want to meet their targets under the existing paradigm. I don't understand why you're carrying water for West Vancouver right now.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Agreed. And West Vancouver could lower fees and allow for two secondary suites if they want to meet their targets under the existing paradigm. I don't understand why you're carrying water for West Vancouver right now.

I thought you understood who lives in houses in West Vancouver? Council could allow 2 suites, lower the fees and I'd be shocked if it added 50 more suites over the 5 years they have to meet their target. It's not how they'll meet their target of 1,432 units in 5 years.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I would think that any that want to add a suite (and you can't convince me there are a lot of them) might be more put off by the requirement to meet the BC building code which requires, among other things, a separate heating system for the suite, and the addition or alteration of a sprinkler system, and a 45 minute fire separation between the suite and dwelling, and potentially increasing the width of the exit stairs or corridors to the suite.

Isn't it only 15 minutes for a new secondary suite inside of an existing dwelling (with no sprinkler requirement but with interconnected smoke alarms)?

Also it seems like you can get away with a single system but it just requires independent temperature controls for the secondary suite.

Document is from March 2024 so it should be current.

https://www.fvrd.ca/assets/Services/Docu...ylaw/Guide%20to%20Secondary%20Suites.pdf

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Isn't it only 15 minutes for a new secondary suite inside of an existing dwelling (with no sprinkler requirement but with interconnected smoke alarms)?

Also it seems like you can get away with a single system but it just requires independent temperature controls for the secondary suite.

Document is from March 2024 so it should be current.

https://www.fvrd.ca/assets/Services/Docu...ylaw/Guide%20to%20Secondary%20Suites.pdf

Looks like West Vancouver don't reference that. (There's a surprise!) I'm guessing anybody wanting to add a suite would get quotes from builders who would know what the code requires, but it might put one or two owners off.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I thought you understood who lives in houses in West Vancouver? Council could allow 2 suites, lower the fees and I'd be shocked if it added 50 more suites over the 5 years they have to meet their target. It's not how they'll meet their target of 1,432 units in 5 years.

I grew up on the North Shore. I'm the one wondering if you understand who lives in West Vancouver. Do you think West Vancouverites are "too good" to have basement suites? On Craigslist there's currently dozens of basement suites available for rent right now.

It's ridiculous, but basement suites do look like this in West Vancouver.

Originally Posted by Changing City

Looks like West Vancouver don't reference that. (There's a surprise!) I'm guessing anybody wanting to add a suite would get quotes from builders who would know what the code requires, but it might put one or two owners off.

West Vancouver council lying is not a surprise to me. Municipalities can reach their housing targets if they want to, they're just kicking and screaming like toddlers.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I grew up on the North Shore. I'm the one wondering if you understand who lives in West Vancouver. Do you think West Vancouverites are "too good" to have basement suites? On Craigslist there's currently dozens of basement suites available for rent right now.

It's ridiculous, but basement suites do look like this in West Vancouver.

At the risk of SSP-splaining, I think the argument isn't that West Van can't build 220 new basement suites and/or laneways, it's that they won't.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

At the risk of SSP-splaining, I think the argument isn't that West Van can't build 220 new basement suites and/or laneways, it's that they won't.

Does anyone in West Van need a basement mortgage helper?

[Changing City]

Here's the progress numbers. There is a requirement in the legislation for these 6 months numbers to be reported, but there are no 6 month targets. Those only apply to the full year target of occupancy permits (minus demolitions), and will be reported in October. Note that Delta says it doesn't currently track demolitions, so their number is higher than the total net added units.

Abbotsford
Year 1: 1,022
(6 months, 511. Occupancy permits - demolitions 403)

City of Delta
Year 1: 514
(6 months, 257. Occupancy permits 242, demolitions u/k)

City of Kamloops
Year 1: 679
(6 months, 340. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 305)

District North Vancouver
Year 1: 499
(6 months, 250. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 388)

District of Oak Bay
Year 1: 56
(6 months, 28. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 7)

City of Port Moody
Year 1: 231
(6 months, 116. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 208)

District of Saanich
Year 1: 440
(6 months, 220. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 195)

City of Vancouver
Year 1: 5,202
(6 months, 2,601. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 1,607)

City of Victoria
Year 1: 659
(6 months, 330. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 753)

District of West Vancouver
Year 1: 220
(6 months, 110. Occupancy permits – demolitions, 40)

[whatnext]

Interesting post on what constitutes "affordable" according to a new building BC Housing was involved in:


DouglasTodd
@DouglasTodd
Is rent of $2,650 to $4,200 per month "affordable?" asks
@BrianPalmquist

He discovers a new government-sponsored rental project in Kitsilano "signals a new and disturbing definition of 'affordable.'"
It's at Larch and 2nd.
#vanre #vanpoli #bcpoli
https://open.substack.com/pub/brianpalmq...=1049v0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

https://x.com/DouglasTodd/status/1790076976041955767

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Interesting post on what constitutes "affordable" according to a new building BC Housing was involved in:


DouglasTodd
@DouglasTodd
Is rent of $2,650 to $4,200 per month "affordable?" asks
@BrianPalmquist

He discovers a new government-sponsored rental project in Kitsilano "signals a new and disturbing definition of 'affordable.'"
It's at Larch and 2nd.
#vanre #vanpoli #bcpoli
https://open.substack.com/pub/brianpalmq...=1049v0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

https://x.com/DouglasTodd/status/1790076976041955767

It is an interesting post... as in it lacks a lot of information that is readily available.

[GenWhy?]

"“When they come for my building to build one of these, I’ll be forced to leave the city. And at those rents, I won’t be back.”"

Sounds like is son is woefully uninformed as well, which is sad because Brian knowns everything.

[chowhou]

Looking at this sad math another way, at a maximum of 30% of gross income devoted to shelter, the usual limit for loans and mortgages, the studio occupant needs an income of more than $103,000 before they have sufficient “spare” cash for a bank loan. For the one bedroom it’s more than $119,000, and for the two bedroom you’ll need more than $159,000.

Why do the doomsayers always act like it's reasonable to expect a young single person to be able to buy a condo on their own? Is it really so crazy to have a household income of $120k? $60k each for a couple means you just need two full time jobs making at least $26/hr.

Here's just a random clerk job which only requires grade 12 offering $27/hr.

[WarrenC12]

People aren't used to inflation. Boomers have no idea that minimum wage is up, average wages are up, and $100k ain't what it used to be.

[GenWhy?]

Also like how I think he's making up quoted material:

BC Housing website: ". The remaining 80% will be tenanted under HousingHub's Provincial Rental Supply Program for middle-income households. "

Brain's blog: "80% of the resulting homes were to be targeted “at- or below-market level rents restricted to middle- income households within the provincial middle-income limits.”"

[GenWhy?]

Kits is considered fairly well-off, right?

"The rent structure will vary depending on the characteristics of the particular project, the tenant population served, and whether or not funding from other partners is layered into the project.

All units in the development must be rented at or below market, and at rents affordable for eligible households considering the location and average household income for the area."

So... is $2,650 for a brand new studio in Kits to $4,200 per month 3-bed affordable? A 60-year-old well-maintained studio can go for $2,200, while I think and older 3-bed could net you $3,800.

The MIRHPP units maximum average rates are:
Studio $950
1-bed $1,200
2-bed $1,600
3-bed $2,000

Is this building affordable?

[WarrenC12]

Brian is a NIMBY clown and has been for years. Nothing to see here.

[GenWhy?]

I have not lived here that long, but can someone tell me what is the "character" and "historical built environment" of the area in question that Richmond is delaying changing their OCP?

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/richmond-steveston-small-scale-multi-unit-housing-legislation