The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[Conorth]

It's going to be a 21-unit apartment building (likely affordable building because it's the same developer as the apartment at the corner of Steadman and St. George Street).

It was on the city's website earlier in the year but it didn't go to PAC - presumably because of the recent changes to the zoning bylaw.

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/DO_...6_Mountain.pdf
https://www.919thebend.ca/2021/11/16...ncton-council/

[Riberview]

Thanks

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by Conorth

It's going to be a 21-unit apartment building (likely affordable building because it's the same developer as the apartment at the corner of Steadman and St. George Street).

It was on the city's website earlier in the year but it didn't go to PAC - presumably because of the recent changes to the zoning bylaw.

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/DO_...6_Mountain.pdf
https://www.919thebend.ca/2021/11/16...ncton-council/

Near one of the wealthiest areas(Winter to Highfield) in Moncton, that's a huge miss and I'm sure the locals won't appreciate affordable housing that close.

[Conorth]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

Near one of the wealthiest areas(Winter to Highfield) in Moncton, that's a huge miss and I'm sure the locals won't appreciate affordable housing that close.

Well, if it indeed turns out to be affordable units, then I really think that's a great location for it. It's next to a major road so public transit is accessible. Plus affordable housing should not be segregated to specific areas of the city.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by Conorth

Well, if it indeed turns out to be affordable units, then I really think that's a great location for it. It's next to a major road so public transit is accessible. Plus affordable housing should not be segregated to specific areas of the city.

Yes I agree with that!

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by Conorth

Well, if it indeed turns out to be affordable units, then I really think that's a great location for it. It's next to a major road so public transit is accessible. Plus affordable housing should not be segregated to specific areas of the city.

I don't mean dump affordable housing in a ghetto, but it feels like a lost opportunity to build a really nice high end /luxury Condo building. This would of been the place to do it IMO. I'm referring to the land on Mountain road, not the st George one, I realize I replied to the wrong post.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

I don't mean dump affordable housing in a ghetto, but it feels like a lost opportunity to build a really nice high end /luxury Condo building. This would of been the place to do it IMO. I'm referring to the land on Mountain road, not the st George one, I realize I replied to the wrong post.

I dont really think of that area as an upscale neighbourhood. Looking at google maps it looks like a lot of older homes and many of them have not been upgraded or kept up. Not sure I see where you are coing from that there will be opposition from the neighbourhood. There is a home thats boarded up right across the street. Are you meaning to say a higher end condo building with help gentrify the area?

Anyways, we need these type of developments more than ever and "affordable" housing developments in 2024 are generally still nice aesthetically.

[MonctonRad]

Not all poor people are problem people. Not everyone living in affordable housing are derelicts, druggies, pushers or thieves.

I come from very humble origins myself. My father died when i was 10, and my mother kept things going by working as a seamstress. I worked hard at university, and was very fortunate with scholarships and in getting accepted to medical school and a prestige residency. Things could have turned out very differently for me. People just need a chance.

I see no problem constructing a well monitored and well maintained affordable living building in a pre-existing neighbourhood. As long as the tenants behave themselves, there should not be any problems.

[adamuptownsj]

There's several varieties of affordable housing out there. Some make good neighbours-- cooperative housing, subsidized low-income and seniors, etc. Some do not. Supportive, transitional, 'First Steps' and the like can be very unpleasant to live near, for all income levels.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

There's several varieties of affordable housing out there. Some make good neighbours-- cooperative housing, subsidized low-income and seniors, etc. Some do not. Supportive, transitional, 'First Steps' and the like can be very unpleasant to live near, for all income levels.

Very true.

[Conorth]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

I don't mean dump affordable housing in a ghetto, but it feels like a lost opportunity to build a really nice high end /luxury Condo building. This would of been the place to do it IMO. I'm referring to the land on Mountain road, not the st George one, I realize I replied to the wrong post.

Yes, I see your point about the high end units for that location. That lot isn't that big though, so it's probably not very attractive for a developer looking to build luxury units. But with some strategic land assembly, we could get those type of buildings on Mountain Rd in the future.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by lirette

I dont really think of that area as an upscale neighbourhood. Looking at google maps it looks like a lot of older homes and many of them have not been upgraded or kept up. Not sure I see where you are coing from that there will be opposition from the neighbourhood. There is a home thats boarded up right across the street. Are you meaning to say a higher end condo building with help gentrify the area?

Anyways, we need these type of developments more than ever and "affordable" housing developments in 2024 are generally still nice aesthetically.

From Winter to Highfield there are multiple million dollar homes, some probably approaching 2M+. If you're not familiar with the area you may not be aware. There's a ton of Doctor's, Lawyers, Judges, politicians who live there.

A lot of the older homes have been gutted/renovated which likely won't show up google maps. IMO it's one of the nicer/older well hidden gems of Moncton.

[Monctoncore]

It seems like you guys are talking about two different sides of Mountain Road. The Housing Mountain Rd. to St. George st. is much different than Winter to Highfield.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

It seems like you guys are talking about two different sides of Mountain Road. The Housing Mountain Rd. to St. George st. is much different than Winter to Highfield.

I mentioned in my second response I meant to quote the mountain road post but I quoted the St George project by mistake.

[MonctonRad]

I am getting more and more impatient with the apparent delay in the start of the major approved developments around the city, and, the lack of progress in bringing rumoured projects to public attention via the approval process.

The exemplar of this is the Ashford/Downing project. I know there is no tremendous rush as necessary infrastructure has to be built before anything else can commence, but, this project will redefine the downtown, and it would be nice to have something concrete about what is planned rather than just whispers and rumours.

I am growing more and more concerned that there are structural problems within the system making these projects uneconomic, and that this is the principle cause of the delay. I'm talking about double property tax, HST on construction materials and high interest rates. The three of these things combined are suffocating development, and, at a time of unprecedented need for new housing options in the city.

Something needs to be done. All the new people in the city need somewhere to live. If this is not addressed, then many of these new people to the region will just move on to somewhere else where their needs will be addressed. This will be a lost opportunity for the city and the province.

Premier Higgs seems oblivious to this. He is an accountant, and only understands the bottom line. I appreciate this, and I approve of fiscal prudence as a general objective, but, at times, it is important to downplay standard accounting practices and instead adopt a paradigm of fiscal stimulus just to get things done.

Both NS and PEI have removed the HST from construction materials, and both provinces are now outperforming NB in terms of new apartment construction. Yes, even PEI is building more apartments than NB!!!! This is a huge red flag!!!

Also, double tax on non owner occupied residential properties has to go. This only ends up increasing rental costs to tenants, as landlords will simply pass on this cost to the tenants. This is a major reason why rents in NB are so high. Double taxation should be gradually eliminated. I believe we are the only province that does this. Double taxation is a huge disincentive to the building of new residential properties.

Let's change the calculus so that it makes sense to build in the province of NB!!! Let's make NB a high growth jurisdiction!!!

[AGGUS]

I think in the next election that if someone campaigns on a plan to grow the province by making real changes that will hurt the bottom line in the short term for the long term gain and actually keeps that plan we'd see a quick turn around.

I saw in the Halifax section there's currently 36 building cranes in Halifax area now. I'd be shocked to learn there is that many in all of NB right now.

There's so much potential here, but the first step in attracting people to NB, and Moncton area HAS to be giving them a place to live. Followed quickly by the support services (medical, schools, etc.) that would be needed to support those folks for success.

The entire SE end of NB is a great place to live, with so many options for "things to do" between Fundy, Shediac, and a great location for visiting locations like PEI we should be a hub of the Maritimes.

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I am getting more and more impatient with the apparent delay in the start of the major approved developments around the city, and, the lack of progress in bringing rumoured projects to public attention via the approval process.

The exemplar of this is the Ashford/Downing project. I know there is no tremendous rush as necessary infrastructure has to be built before anything else can commence, but, this project will redefine the downtown, and it would be nice to have something concrete about what is planned rather than just whispers and rumours.

I am growing more and more concerned that there are structural problems within the system making these projects uneconomic, and that this is the principle cause of the delay. I'm talking about double property tax, HST on construction materials and high interest rates. The three of these things combined are suffocating development, and, at a time of unprecedented need for new housing options in the city.

Something needs to be done. All the new people in the city need somewhere to live. If this is not addressed, then many of these new people to the region will just move on to somewhere else where their needs will be addressed. This will be a lost opportunity for the city and the province.

Premier Higgs seems oblivious to this. He is an accountant, and only understands the bottom line. I appreciate this, and I approve of fiscal prudence as a general objective, but, at times, it is important to downplay standard accounting practices and instead adopt a paradigm of fiscal stimulus just to get things done.

Both NS and PEI have removed the HST from construction materials, and both provinces are now outperforming NB in terms of new apartment construction. Yes, even PEI is building more apartments than NB!!!! This is a huge red flag!!!

Also, double tax on non owner occupied residential properties has to go. This only ends up increasing rental costs to tenants, as landlords will simply pass on this cost to the tenants. This is a major reason why rents in NB are so high. Double taxation should be gradually eliminated. I believe we are the only province that does this. Double taxation is a huge disincentive to the building of new residential properties.

Let's change the calculus so that it makes sense to build in the province of NB!!! Let's make NB a high growth jurisdiction!!!

In NB the proportion of tax that comprises the average monthly rent is about $500 on newer stock. So $500 out of every renters monthly bill goes to the government not the property owner. In NS the equivalent amount is about $250 per month. So the overall tax on newer product in NB is about $5-6,000 per unit a year. So the government is taxing an apartment unit at about the same value as a single family $500,000 home. Yet apartment buildings have a fraction of the impact on long term municipal costs vs. a subdivision that requires acres of more land, road, infrastructure, maintenance to service over a lifetime. Kilometers of road and infrastructure repair, snow removal, etc; whereas an apartment owner is on the hook for these costs in addition to tax. Think of 80 apartment units on a 2 acre lot vs. 80 single family homes in a large subdivision. The government should be incentivizing apartment construction with less property tax.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I am getting more and more impatient with the apparent delay in the start of the major approved developments around the city, and, the lack of progress in bringing rumoured projects to public attention via the approval process.

The exemplar of this is the Ashford/Downing project. I know there is no tremendous rush as necessary infrastructure has to be built before anything else can commence, but, this project will redefine the downtown, and it would be nice to have something concrete about what is planned rather than just whispers and rumours.

I am growing more and more concerned that there are structural problems within the system making these projects uneconomic, and that this is the principle cause of the delay. I'm talking about double property tax, HST on construction materials and high interest rates. The three of these things combined are suffocating development, and, at a time of unprecedented need for new housing options in the city.

Something needs to be done. All the new people in the city need somewhere to live. If this is not addressed, then many of these new people to the region will just move on to somewhere else where their needs will be addressed. This will be a lost opportunity for the city and the province.

Premier Higgs seems oblivious to this. He is an accountant, and only understands the bottom line. I appreciate this, and I approve of fiscal prudence as a general objective, but, at times, it is important to downplay standard accounting practices and instead adopt a paradigm of fiscal stimulus just to get things done.

Both NS and PEI have removed the HST from construction materials, and both provinces are now outperforming NB in terms of new apartment construction. Yes, even PEI is building more apartments than NB!!!! This is a huge red flag!!!

Also, double tax on non owner occupied residential properties has to go. This only ends up increasing rental costs to tenants, as landlords will simply pass on this cost to the tenants. This is a major reason why rents in NB are so high. Double taxation should be gradually eliminated. I believe we are the only province that does this. Double taxation is a huge disincentive to the building of new residential properties.

Let's change the calculus so that it makes sense to build in the province of NB!!! Let's make NB a high growth jurisdiction!!!

\\

Actually, I believe Higgs is a mechanical engineer

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sailor734

\\

Actually, I believe Higgs is a mechanical engineer

I stand corrected. I actually knew that, but 'ol parsimonious Higgs is such a beancounter that he just seems like an accountant, and, he was the former finance minister before becoming Premier.

[sailor734]

While I’m not a fan of Higgs’ lurch to the right over the last couple of years I don’t think being tight with a dollar is necessarily a bad thing in a politician. Especially after living through the Graham and then Gallant years.