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  #21  
Old Posted May 8, 2024, 7:41 PM
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It's insane, out of all the buildings to protest in Downtown Chicago, it's one that's nowhere near the top 100 tallest buildings in the city.

I hope a 3-400 footer can still happen here even if they chop it a bit.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 8, 2024, 7:47 PM
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True. And before the live part there was a Q&A section with voted-on questions which were mostly rational and supportive of the density, so I feel like the alderman felt the support. My concern is many of the speakers against seemed well-connected.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 8, 2024, 11:28 PM
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The alderman said several times that he wanted to leverage this project for improved traffic and pedestrian safety measures.

They're waiting for feedback from IDOT and that study wasn't ready.

The alderman said there was a need to build aster are no cranes in the skyline and building is pretty much stagnant while the demand is there.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
The alderman said several times that he wanted to leverage this project for improved traffic and pedestrian safety measures.

They're waiting for feedback from IDOT and that study wasn't ready.

The alderman said there was a need to build aster are no cranes in the skyline and building is pretty much stagnant while the demand is there.

Hm, sounds like good news if he's not totally against the project but we'll see.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 2:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Toasty Joe View Post
Extremely frustrating. It's still all up to the alderman, who said he hasn't made up his mind. I suspect it'll be chopped a bit because these are a particularly vocal group of people, but who knows. It's outside the historic district and not exactly replacing anything worth preserving, but people were pleading with him like their life depended on it. It was surreal. There were some YIMBY voices there but most called up to speak were against.
Everyone already residing in a nearby high rise should have immediately been banned from commenting against this proposal. Bunch of damned hypocrites!

Honestly, the alderman should have just cut off comments and supported the project. These nimby schmucks need to disappear permanently!
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  #26  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 3:27 PM
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Maybe they're not actually going to influence the alderman's decision and are just an annoyance.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 3:43 PM
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A new piece from Block Club Chicago on the project.

https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/05...alderman-says/
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  #28  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I hope a 3-400 footer can still happen here even if they chop it a bit.
Since 150 m (492.13 ft) is often used as the threshold for a "skyscraper", I hope there won't be any height chop. Chicago currently has the 11th most skyscrapers based on said threshold:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...st_skyscrapers
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  #29  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 5:02 PM
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Ridiculous. This is why we have a housing crisis in this city and country. No one wants anything built anywhere, and then go on and complain that they can't find any affordable places to live.

These people don't own that property. The city should have a planning and zoning department that can construct a grand plan for city development, developers can submit plans that are then reviewed by the planning board, and everyone else can literally shut the $%@# up.

Build. Build. Build. Drown the city with supply, and watch housing prices and rents start to moderate and fall. The city will flush with new property tax dollars and we can fund all sorts of things to help our communities.

So unbelievably frustrating.
Though I agree with some of the sentiment, is there a feeling that developers are being constrained en masse? My sense was Chicago is compartively pro-development. And vast amounts of land sit undeveloped because of some mix of interest rates and lack of demand.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VKChaz View Post
Though I agree with some of the sentiment, is there a feeling that developers are being constrained en masse? My sense was Chicago is compartively pro-development. And vast amounts of land sit undeveloped because of some mix of interest rates and lack of demand.
Chicago is fairly pro-development, but aldermen often appease NIMBYs by chopping the height of proposals or make otherwise anti-urban changes. In times where interest rates are making it harder to build, every little bit matters and the density that we usually chop off to appease NIMBYs is too valuable to lose.

That being said, there's lots of reasons why vast amounts of land sit undeveloped:
- property taxes structured favorably to an empty site vs. a land value tax that would promote active use
- lack of proper infrastructure in & around large, former industrial lots means higher cost to build
- soil contamination on some former industrial sites is costly to clean up, typically requiring gov't help ($)
- NIMBY homeowners whose main investment has been their home like to see it continue rising in value and fight new developments from the start, costing time & money in the process that leaves too many developments as dirt lots
- interest rates, but only more recently
- labor & materials costs

- lack of demand is harder to attribute, because we don't really know what the demand would be if new housing were built there, only speculate given the local market and run forecasts. And it can change if the city adds a new bus route or something. Obviously it depends where we're talking, but at a metro level, housing prices in Chicagoland have risen some of the highest in the nation recently, and new construction numbers are very low. Vacancy rates should be 5-10% but are commonly 1-3%, maybe a little higher in some neighborhoods. These things are 100% related and help prove there is (growing) demand. Otherwise prices would be remaining the same or falling. May as well let the developers take the risk and maybe get some public works projects while they're at it.

Last edited by Toasty Joe; May 9, 2024 at 8:24 PM.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 7:52 PM
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Chicago is fairly pro-development, but aldermen often appease NIMBYs by chopping the height of proposals or make otherwise anti-urban changes. In times where interest rates are making it harder to build, every little bit matters and the density that we usually chop off to appease NIMBYs is too valuable to lose.
Why appease NIMBYs in the first place? Can they actually do anything?
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  #32  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Why appease NIMBYs in the first place? Can they actually do anything?
Presumably they could vote for a different aldercreature. If enough people are upset, they could elect someone very anti-development
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  #33  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by VKChaz View Post
Presumably they could vote for a different aldercreature. If enough people are upset, they could elect someone very anti-development
The 2nd Ward is more than Old Town. He'd win re-election.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 9, 2024, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by VKChaz View Post
Presumably they could vote for a different aldercreature. If enough people are upset, they could elect someone very anti-development
Exactly. Hopefully it nets out with the new density but not enough people pay attention to local politics or care who their alderman unless they disagree with new developments or the roads are in rough shape (potholes, ice/snow removal). So there's always that risk.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 2:00 PM
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  #36  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 2:29 PM
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 1:05 AM
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Update on Plans to Mitigate Traffic Concerns

An email the Feen Hill team sent out this afternoon.


Update on Plans to Mitigate Traffic Concerns

To the Old Town community,

We hope this update finds you well as you enjoy the final days of summer and prepare for the fall. Over the past three years, we have been so grateful for the time and energy you’ve invested in shaping our proposal to revitalize and reimagine parts of the North and LaSalle Corridor. As we continue our community engagement process, we are pleased to provide an update on our plans to address one of the main concerns we’ve heard from neighbors and residents – traffic.

Traffic and congestion have always been top of mind for us, and we have remained committed to ensuring our proposal does not negatively impact traffic patterns in the neighborhood. That’s why we recruited one of the country's leading traffic engineering firms, Kenig, Lindgren, O’Hara, Aboona, Inc. (KLOA, Inc.), to develop a comprehensive traffic improvement plan based on an independent traffic study of the area.

Today, we are pleased to share our findings and important details of our plan to mitigate traffic concerns. This unprecedented investment includes a commitment to:

-Demolishing both the Shell and BP Gas Stations
-Eliminating 12 existing curb cuts along the North and LaSalle Corridor
-Removing all current North Ave obstructions including the Walgreens trash and loading dock
-Installing 18 curb bump outs along the North and LaSalle Corridor across 5 separate intersections
-Creating a new Wells Street Divvy Bike station south of North Avenue
-Installing a dedicated lead/protected right turn lane from LaSalle to North to reduce queuing time
-Updating major intersections (North and LaSalle + North and Wells) with:
-New bump outs to each intersection corner
-Bike lane striping
-Re-optimized signal timings (to increase coordination between intersections)
-New bus striping
-Dedicated and signalized right turn only lanes
Widened sidewalks (to increase consistency on LaSalle)
New fisheye camera system with cellular modem
Reducing pedestrian crossing times across 5 intersections and 18 unique pedestrian walkways
Increasing vehicular turning and throughput capacity
Consolidating loading zones to utilize a very large, dedicated off-street loading area

When implemented, the above traffic investments will result in statistically verified reductions to traffic as a direct result of our project, which are currently under review and verification by the Department of Transportation including:
30-35% reduction to southbound right turn delays from LaSalle to North
25-30% reduction in eastbound left-turn delays from North to LaSalle
25% reduction to Pedestrian Crossing Distances at North and LaSalle
36% reduction to Pedestrian Crossing Distances at North and Wells
15-20% reduction to westbound queues on North Avenue

As we enter this next phase of the project, it's important to demonstrate the strong support that exists within the community. After years of collaboration with residents, stakeholders and neighbors, we have developed a proposal to improve car traffic while protecting pedestrians and encouraging use of public transit; reduce crime and increase safety; boost economic development in the neighborhood by investing in vacant surface parking lots; fill retail vacancies; support local small businesses; and create socially and economically inclusive housing opportunities for all Chicagoans at both market and affordable rate.

If you believe in our vision and the positive impact of our proposal, we encourage you to share your support and help us move forward together.

If you have any questions or additional feedback you would like to share, please visit our feedback tab or email us directly at oldtown@fernhillcompany.com

Thank you,
Nick Anderson and the Fern Hill Team
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 1:24 AM
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That is a LOT of improvements to the area that they're proposing.

So happy that this sounds like it's moving forward, I cannot wait to hear what lovely excuse this NYIMBY group have to say about it.

Quote:
-Demolishing both the Shell and BP Gas Stations
-Eliminating 12 existing curb cuts along the North and LaSalle Corridor
-Removing all current North Ave obstructions including the Walgreens trash and loading dock
-Installing 18 curb bump outs along the North and LaSalle Corridor across 5 separate intersections
-Creating a new Wells Street Divvy Bike station south of North Avenue
-Installing a dedicated lead/protected right turn lane from LaSalle to North to reduce queuing time
-Updating major intersections (North and LaSalle + North and Wells) with:
-New bump outs to each intersection corner
-Bike lane striping
-Re-optimized signal timings (to increase coordination between intersections)
-New bus striping
-Dedicated and signalized right turn only lanes
Widened sidewalks (to increase consistency on LaSalle)
New fisheye camera system with cellular modem
Reducing pedestrian crossing times across 5 intersections and 18 unique pedestrian walkways
Increasing vehicular turning and throughput capacity
Consolidating loading zones to utilize a very large, dedicated off-street loading area

When implemented, the above traffic investments will result in statistically verified reductions to traffic as a direct result of our project, which are currently under review and verification by the Department of Transportation including:
30-35% reduction to southbound right turn delays from LaSalle to North
25-30% reduction in eastbound left-turn delays from North to LaSalle
25% reduction to Pedestrian Crossing Distances at North and LaSalle
36% reduction to Pedestrian Crossing Distances at North and Wells
15-20% reduction to westbound queues on North Avenue
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2024, 7:35 PM
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Is it still 494 feet or was the height chopped?
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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2024, 2:12 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Why appease NIMBYs in the first place? Can they actually do anything?
They get elected by these groups. Carlos Rosa got elected by LSNA and LSP which is why he's Alderman to begin with. Of course he's going to listen to them.

Same goes for many of these alders, they got elected by a handful of wealthy or well organized community groups so of course they do these groups' bidding.
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