Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[delts145]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

SLC is going to become a giant suburb with some new shiny buildings if they tear down buildings that support the Arts. Real cities support and maintain their Arts because it is culturally important and to me is an indicator that a city is a city. In Denver you have the Denver Center for Performing Arts and the Denver Arts Museum. The Arts Museum is architecturally unique and stands out. If the proposed “entertainment district” rumors are true I really hope they find a way to maintain AH and not turn it into a City Creek 2.0. I also don’t understand like others here or on Reddit have mentioned why they need a new entertainment district with Gateway begging to be further turned into an entertainment district, and why some of our giant parking lots can’t be built up. Seems like bad city planning and a billionaire who wants to play Sim City imo. Also why is it SLC residents will pay the taxes? If the NHL team is “Utah team name”, with the emphasis on Utah shouldn’t more cities chip in? At least the Wasatch front imo should be taxed. I don’t live in SLC, but do live in SLC county and think it’s only fair we all pay our part since we’ll all be enjoying and using Delta. Ryan Smith and his billionaire friends down in Lehi should be taxed too. Not like people from Lehi will never go to the games

I agree with much of what you're saying Geographer except for the mention of Denver's performing art's facilities. Anyone like myself who is very familiar with both Salt Lake and L.A.'s performing arts facilities realizes that Salt Lake hits waaay above the typical level of fifty largest metros, and of what a mid-sized metro would suggest, even when comparing it to a behemoth like L.A. Denver does a great job in many areas but let's give Salt Lake City its just dues. Abravanel Hall definitely needs to rethink its seating makeup in order to better capture and enhance the bottom line of its all-important money patronage. However, that does not detract from the quality of the Hall itself or the level of the talent at the Utah Symphony. Even in its current seating iteration Abravanel Hall is far superior to The Boettcher Hall. In fact, The Colorado Symphony has been demanding a new hall for many years now. In the fields of Dance and Vocal performance Salt Lake City's Ballet West is now rated in the top ten most powerful Ballet Companies in the U.S. And of course, The Tabernacle Choir At Temple Square is ranked by the know-it-alls of London as the entire World's top ten, and that's politely ranked by the Brits in alphabetical order. Also, Salt Lake and the Wasatch Front rank's highly in a wide field of performing arts categories and its many venues.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by locolife

I thought they wanted the players and employees to live in this new district, downtown? Players tend to spend a lot more time at practice facilities than the arena they play games in. Sounds like they'll gravitate towards living in the burbs if this the case.

Also, does this mean no locker room at DC then? Or just not a best in class one? You need some type of locker room at the arena... Weird, guess more news is coming soon.

They are building locker rooms at the Delta Center this summer. That’s been reported a million times over. Not weird.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by delts145

I agree with much of what you're saying Geographer except for the mention of Denver's performing art's facilities. Anyone like myself who is very familiar with both Salt Lake and L.A.'s performing arts facilities realizes that Salt Lake hits waaay above the typical level of fifty largest metros, and of what a mid-sized metro would suggest, even when comparing it to a behemoth like L.A. Denver does a great job in many areas but let's give Salt Lake City its just dues. Abravanel Hall definitely needs to rethink its seating makeup in order to better capture and enhance the bottom line of its all-important money patronage. However, that does not detract from the quality of the Hall itself or the level of the talent at the Utah Symphony. Even in its current seating iteration Abravanel Hall is far superior to The Boettcher Hall. In fact, The Colorado Symphony has been demanding a new hall for many years now. In the fields of Dance and Vocal performance Salt Lake City's Ballet West is now rated in the top ten most powerful Ballet Companies in the U.S. And of course, The Tabernacle Choir At Temple Square is ranked by the know-it-alls of London as the entire World's top ten, and that's politely ranked by the Brits in alphabetical order. Also, Salt Lake and the Wasatch Front rank's highly in a wide field of performing arts categories and its many venues.

You make some good points and put things in perspective. I always forget about The Tabernacle Choir At Temple Square because I’m not a part of the LDS church, but that’s no reason why I shouldn’t go see them perform, and as you pointed out they’re highly regarded worldwide. I suppose my frustration will be if they get rid of AH to build something else. I’d like to see AH stick around. I’ve heard rumors of the Colorado Symphony issues as well so maybe their issues are not so different from ours

[Blah_Amazing]

Some quick layout plans and ideas I had for how to revitalize Japantown and create a real place for the community.

I hope Japantown doesn't get forgotten in all of these plans for an entertainment district.

Thoughts?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by delts145

I agree with much of what you're saying Geographer except for the mention of Denver's performing art's facilities. Anyone like myself who is very familiar with both Salt Lake and L.A.'s performing arts facilities realizes that Salt Lake hits waaay above the typical level of fifty largest metros, and of what a mid-sized metro would suggest, even when comparing it to a behemoth like L.A. Denver does a great job in many areas but let's give Salt Lake City its just dues. Abravanel Hall definitely needs to rethink its seating makeup in order to better capture and enhance the bottom line of its all-important money patronage. However, that does not detract from the quality of the Hall itself or the level of the talent at the Utah Symphony. Even in its current seating iteration Abravanel Hall is far superior to The Boettcher Hall. In fact, The Colorado Symphony has been demanding a new hall for many years now. In the fields of Dance and Vocal performance Salt Lake City's Ballet West is now rated in the top ten most powerful Ballet Companies in the U.S. And of course, The Tabernacle Choir At Temple Square is ranked by the know-it-alls of London as the entire World's top ten, and that's politely ranked by the Brits in alphabetical order. Also, Salt Lake and the Wasatch Front rank's highly in a wide field of performing arts categories and its many venues.

Eh. The Colorado Symphony quietly muted it's demand for a rebuild of Boetcher years ago after they failed to raise enough in private donations to unlock the $60M in public funding that was approved.
It's still in the works, but definitely on a slow-burn.

Didn't know that Ballet West was such a large company.

I think that both these factors are possibly indicative of the lack of generational wealthy families, i.e. old money, in Denver versus SLC and the Mormon wealth.

As for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, that is indeed a signature cultural institution that few cities in the world have anything that can match.

[mstar]

The news today of Smith purchasing the South Town Mall area and planning on building the NHL team's practice facility there makes me nervous again about a future move of both the hockey team and the Jazz staying downtown. I am sure plan "A" is to keep both teams downtown. However, if plan "A" doesn't work out or if Ryan Smith doesn't get everything he wants - then who know what plan "B" or "C" is. It also could be leveraging SLC to give him everything he wants to make plan "A" pencil out. I hope I am not reading too much into this. But why build the practice facility in Sandy if you want everything downtown and close to the arena?

[utenation]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Some pretty hefty demands from Ryan Smith:

https://archive.md/unCk9

But I think a lot of it is positive - including asking the city to forgo any height-limit in the designated area.


Will be interesting.

Maybe a taller hotel?

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by mstar

The news today of Smith purchasing the South Town Mall area and planning on building the NHL team's practice facility there makes me nervous again about a future move of both the hockey team and the Jazz staying downtown. I am sure plan "A" is to keep both teams downtown. However, if plan "A" doesn't work out or if Ryan Smith doesn't get everything he wants - then who know what plan "B" or "C" is. It also could be leveraging SLC to give him everything he wants to make plan "A" pencil out. I hope I am not reading too much into this. But why build the practice facility in Sandy if you want everything downtown and close to the arena?

Oh, this is most certainly plan B. Now we see who is ready to play ball.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

Oh, this is most certainly plan B. Now we see who is ready to play ball.

Doubtful.

Plan B is probably a new arena downtown - and then Plan C would be out to the suburbs.

It isn't getting to Plan C, tho.

[Rileybo]

I hope I’m wrong, but part of me believes that the plan is still to build at the south end of the valley and any snag/public pushback downtown will serve as an excuse to move there.

[RC14]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

Oh, this is most certainly plan B. Now we see who is ready to play ball.

South Town Mall is absolutely plan B or C. I also have strong reason to believe It was his original plan A. Also, you will notice, in that press conference where he says we have a "Plan B and a plan C" he mentions what you could do with "100acres in the suburbs." This site is 111acres (at least acording to one article I read.) It is also close to Real Salt Lake which he also partially owns.

I think Smith wants to be at the South Town Mall site. he is trying to make this work downtown due to influences of elected officials, but we can all see that there are allot of moving parts to this plan and the more complex the project, the more likely it is that something will go wrong. I am very hopeful but also very nervous.

[airhero]

My guess is the city council approves the tax hike and at that point there is no way the arena moves. It would be beyond stupid to pass up a billion dollar incentive. It does sound like the city/county is attempting to leverage their ownership of nearby parcels to come to an agreement of how some of the money is spent in exchange for the land being used for SEG’s entertainment district. If that ends up with too many demands of SEG from the city/county it could open the door for a move, but from the outset it really seems the agreements are tentatively in place. If the city/county is perceived to have given up too much, or if the plans aren’t to the public’s satisfaction, there could be substantial opposition that could lead to the tax hike being killed. I suppose we will have a better idea of the plan and response to it tomorrow. I’m curious how detailed and set these plans will be.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by airhero

My guess is the city council approves the tax hike and at that point there is no way the arena moves. It would be beyond stupid to pass up a billion dollar incentive. It does sound like the city/county is attempting to leverage their ownership of nearby parcels to come to an agreement of how some of the money is spent in exchange for the land being used for SEG’s entertainment district. If that ends up with too many demands of SEG from the city/county it could open the door for a move, but from the outset it really seems the agreements are tentatively in place. If the city/county is perceived to have given up too much, or if the plans aren’t to the public’s satisfaction, there could be substantial opposition that could lead to the tax hike being killed. I suppose we will have a better idea of the plan and response to it tomorrow. I’m curious how detailed and set these plans will be.

It's no stupid if the downtown project costs more than a billion more to build there and presents a lot of complexity which means risk. New arenas proposed all over North America now exceed $1B ranging from the Clippers to the Thunder, rebuilding existing ones can be even more costly. Think about how much tear down and rebuild is proposed just on this site. Burying streets, uncovering other streets, tearing down symphony hall, rebuilding it maybe, fixing Japan Town, reorienting/possibly rebuilding the convention center. Getting land ready alone could exceed a billion, easily. This is very complex, requires many parcels of land with buildings already on them, which all translates into a ton more money. On top of all that, you still have to renovate the existing Delta Center to make it work for Hockey and the NBA, while still playing there. This is incredibly expensive because the format of the building is not ideal for hockey, this isn't as simple and removing and replacing suites, changing out seats, you're talking about rebuilding possibly from the foundation up. All while still trying host games there each season, a deep playoff run by either league could completely screw up the schedule.

One other point to make, those demographics near the south site may be a little too hard to pass up...some quick math below, that is almost 450K population base with median HH incomes over 100K. There is no doubt in my mind that is a factor they will be thinking about in all this.

Median HH Incomes/Population

Lehi- $117K/85K
Draper- $126K/50K
American Fork- $90K/37K
South Jordan- $120K/85K
Herriman- $115K/50K
Riverton- $115K/45K
Sandy- $108K/93K

Whereas downtown-
SLC- $77K/220K
South Salt Lake- $57K/26K
North Salt Lake- $94K/22K
Millcreek- $88K/63K
Murray- $82K/50K
West Valley City- $82K/136K

[Comrade]

It's really weird how invested in this you are, loco. I think it's a bit of bitterness on your end after being so adamant there was no chance the Coyotes would relocate here. But maybe you should take a break and focus on what the Phoenix area will do to secure a new NHL team in the future. Just a thought.

[delts145]

Sugar Alley's looking good!

April 2024


Photos By Kier Construction @ https://www.kier.org/our-work/multi-unit/the-residences-at-sugar-alley/

.

[goldcntry]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

Am I seeing this right? Are there now TWO angels atop the middle spires?

The yellow device you see on the central West tower is a small crane to assist in moving blocks of granite in rebuilding the spire. Most of the spires had one whilst rebuilding. I'll try and get a clear and closer pic this Thursday at practice.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by RC14

South Town Mall is absolutely plan B or C. I also have strong reason to believe It was his original plan A. Also, you will notice, in that press conference where he says we have a "Plan B and a plan C" he mentions what you could do with "100acres in the suburbs." This site is 111acres (at least acording to one article I read.) It is also close to Real Salt Lake which he also partially owns.

I think Smith wants to be at the South Town Mall site. he is trying to make this work downtown due to influences of elected officials, but we can all see that there are allot of moving parts to this plan and the more complex the project, the more likely it is that something will go wrong. I am very hopeful but also very nervous.

He'll lose a lot of money in tax incentives if he chooses that spot for the arena, but I bet he's buying the whole 111 acres because eventually, down the road when the Delta Center has "reached the end of its usable lifespan" as owners always say, he'll have property to build on. So while it's not probalby going to happen now, it's his future backup.

Also, curious with this amount of space, I wonder if they've considered moving the Jazz facilities down there too... the current one is so out of the way, and I'd assume its at the lower end of NBA practice facilities. If they're building something nice and new for the NHL team, I wonder if they consider doing the same for the Jazz in the same location... share some of the building space, build a practice court with fan seating like they'll do for hockey, etc. I would assume the quality of the practice/team facility does play a little into attracting free agents, since the players spend so much time there.

[TheWireRedux]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

Also, curious with this amount of space, I wonder if they've considered moving the Jazz facilities down there too... the current one is so out of the way, and I'd assume its at the lower end of NBA practice facilities.

That actually isn't the case. The ZBBC off 1300 S where the Jazz practice facilities are went through a top to bottom renovation at a pretty large expense a little over five years ago and is still on par with some of the best training facilities in the league. The proximity to the arena for players and staff is actually pretty optimal short of being right next to the arena. The reason they made such an investment was for the very reasons you already pointed out in that it has supported the player development pitch the team makes to prospective free agents. It's still a great facility.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by TheWireRedux

That actually isn't the case. The ZBBC off 1300 S where the Jazz practice facilities are went through a top to bottom renovation at a pretty large expense a little over five years ago and is still on par with some of the best training facilities in the league. The proximity to the arena for players and staff is actually pretty optimal short of being right next to the arena. The reason they made such an investment was for the very reasons you already pointed out in that it has supported the player development pitch the team makes to prospective free agents. It's still a great facility.

Interesting, it's a bummer it's not more open to the public, never get to see much of what's inside except for what their social media team shares.

Looking at the Okland Construction website where they highlight the renovations, so it does look nicer than I thought it would inside.

[ucsbgaucho]

Salt Lake County Mayor Jenny Wilson issued a lengthy statement on Tuesday, confirming that her office has been involved in conversations with the Utah Symphony and Smith Entertainment Group over an entertainment district outside of the Delta Center. Smith Entertainment Group, owner of the Utah Jazz and the state's new National Hockey League franchise, requested two blocks east of the arena to build the district through a process created by the Utah Legislature earlier this year.

"While much public attention has focused on a new sports arena as part of the downtown revitalization proposal, all parties are aligned in confirming that fine arts and culture will continue to have a strong and vital presence in the downtown core," Wilson said. "The vision for a revitalization project is in the earliest stages and no decisions on the future of Abravanel Hall have been made."

Wilson added that the county and Utah Symphony were already working on a "comprehensive master plan" to address renovation needs for the 45-year-old concert hall and she believes the new district could "accelerate" those plans.

Her statement was released just ahead of a Salt Lake City Council meeting, where Smith Entertainment Group officials will provide more details about the company's proposal for downtown Salt Lake City under SB272, the bill that creates a downtown "revitalization zone" surrounding the Delta Center.