London Roads

[Yerbamate]

Assuming the Ring Road idea is dead as ever, especially considering the City has expanded out so far. What’s the plausibility any form of Ring Road will be considered in the future? Seems a lot of sensitive land on the West side would be destroyed, but the North and East would still be doable. Veterans minus the traffic lights. Once more of the city expands south of the 401 they will at least have that highway as a branch.

[Pimpmasterdac]

At this point it would have to be the province stepping in to build anything meaningful, which I don't see happening as London provincial is solid NDP and only accounts for 3 seats. City of London is broke, is delaying essential infrastructure projects in town as they have put their eggs into BRT that is going wildy over budget.

Even if there wasn't the financial issues, any north end ring road at this point would be outside of London proper as it's been or being developed to the city limits. Middlesex Centre was asked in the 90s about building said leg of the ring road and wanted no part of it. Unless province steps in to either build it as an extension to Highway 7 or redraws municipal boundaries it's a dead end.

As mentioned in another post there was a west end corridor between Woodhull and Westdel Bourne that the City wanted to use for a potential ring road in the early 2000s. It would have gone for either 401 or 402 to Oxford. However nothing in the most recent city budget mentions this, and at this point are just old lines on a map with the city not owning any of the land and nothing being planned.

[Mick42]

It’s a shame, London will be one of the biggest cities I can think of with no Expressway or Ring road. Not counting Highbury which is really just a spur. Hopefully Veterans can become traffic light free at some point. A straight run North to South on the East end would count for something.

[Djeffery]

I don't know how useful a ring road even would be anymore. It's so far, how far north are people willing to drive to go east from the west end to avoid taking Oxford? I don't even think we need an east-west route anymore so much as we need a good route from the west to the 402/401. Strange to say, but Wonderland is too far east now and is a shitshow to drive down from anywhere north. Doesn't even have to be a highway. I've said before how I wished Westdel would run north to Gainsborough and south to the 402.

Of course, who knows where the city is going to go 50 years from now (and I know I won't care lol), maybe the boundary is going to go to Ilderton and a highway corridor just beyond the current development plans north of Sunningdale should be protected

[Mick42]

Elevated Rail transport like Chicagos L train would work on a loop in lieu of the Ring Road. BRT will put a small dent in alleviating traffic woes but I do think there needs to be a bolder move long term.

[MolsonExport]

No expressway. No ring road. No mass transit.

0/3

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Interesting post on urban Toronto regarding the freeways/roads in the London area during the 2000s https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/roads-ontario-gta-highways-discussion.12233/page-446

[Mick42]

That proposal looks awesome. Still doable, would need to work on overpasses and underpasses for Veterans first. Wild that they built the North extension with traffic lights. I’m sure this is a matter of funding but there needs to be a re-evaluation before moving on these things. Londons growth is exponential and not addressing these concerns is pretty foolish. West past Westdel Bourne seems to avoid any areas of concern and would help with any inevitable future sprawl that way.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Mick42

That proposal looks awesome. Still doable, would need to work on overpasses and underpasses for Veterans first. Wild that they built the North extension with traffic lights. I’m sure this is a matter of funding but there needs to be a re-evaluation before moving on these things. Londons growth is exponential and not addressing these concerns is pretty foolish. West past Westdel Bourne seems to avoid any areas of concern and would help with any inevitable future sprawl that way.

The city's broke and full of NIMBYs. That corridor protection study is from 2001 and thus woefully outdated- likely obsolete or impossible in some areas now.

The sections that call for 6 lanes and aren't even 4 lanes today should be the main priority. Getting those 4-laned would give you the best bang for your buck.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Even VMP while built, isn't planned to have interchanges the full length until 2062, the initial plan was to build an interchangeable every 5 years or so. Even 2062 date now seems unlikely as it's nowhere on the City's radar, and only a hope if provincial government steps. However London backs the wrong horse politically, we have 0 PC MPPs to advocate for this and highway building isn't the NDPs agenda.

[jammer139]

Sadly the deepest blame lies at the feet of our no progress municipal leaders of the past. Al Gleason and Jane Bigelow who famously said when the province came calling to built Highway 100 as divided highway and with 80% of the bill she lead the charge to say NO we don't want the city to grow. Council after council buried their heads in the sand and looked the other way when they could have been setting aside ROW for future expressways and rapid transit because "Hell NO we won't Grow" thinking.



The lack of vision and planning lives on till this day.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by jammer139

Sadly the deepest blame lies at the feet of our no progress municipal leaders of the past. Al Gleason and Jane Bigelow who famously said when the province came calling to built Highway 100 as divided highway and with 80% of the bill she lead the charge to say NO we don't want the city to grow. Council after council buried their heads in the sand and looked the other way when they could have been setting aside ROW for future expressways and rapid transit because "Hell NO we won't Grow" thinking.



The lack of vision and planning lives on till this day.

The province didn't need the city's say so to have built 100 the way they did 126, since the city limits were the river back then.

[Mick42]

To think of the mentality “we don’t want the city to grow.” Better to have it and not use it than not have it and need it. The growth of London was always inevitable.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Is London any different today than it was back then? Do you hear any mayor showing courage and vision for building transit and proper roads? Like Josh Morgan seems like a nice guy but do you really think he will be bold in fixing the city's terrible infrastructure? Not a chance. They just kick the same can down the road year after year, decade after decade. They will do a big study that will take years, hire consultants and then the nimbys will make sure the city does nothing. At least Waterloo has a regional government for stability with these things and Hamilton is under the umbrella of Metrolinx. London is an island and if a mayor did have courage to build what we need, I think there would be a major public outcry, funded of course by Joe Kools.

[Djeffery]

Matt Brown I think had that chance. Couldn't keep it in his pants, so we'll never know how he would have steered the whole BRT thing.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Matt Brown I think had that chance. Couldn't keep it in his pants, so we'll never know how he would have steered the whole BRT thing.

I have no idea why Mattress Brown changed his mind on rapid transit. From my memory he was supportive of LRT but after he had the affair he changed to BRT.

[MolsonExport]

Mattress Brown

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I have no idea why Mattress Brown changed his mind on rapid transit. From my memory he was supportive of LRT but after he had the affair he changed to BRT.

I think when reality set in about how expensive that tunnel was going to be under Richmond, he changed his mind. I can only imagine now how expensive that tunnel would be given how overbudget the rest of it has gone.

[haljackey]

I wonder what the cost/challenges would be to deviate the BRT from Richmond to Talbot and widen/deepen the famous Talbot Street Underpass- it would then use Oxford to Wharncliffe towards Western and Masonville.

Heck you could even omit a rail crossing if you had the BRT connect between Oxford's Thames River bridge and CP underpass where The Belfort Night Club is. That might require some expropriation, but likely cheaper. It's tight, but doable for a BRT-Only Road. Heck, that also bypasses the mixed traffic on Wharncliffe route so you could get the west line going on Oxford to Wonderland.

[bolognium]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I wonder what the cost/challenges would be to deviate the BRT from Richmond to Talbot and widen/deepen the famous Talbot Street Underpass- it would then use Oxford to Wharncliffe towards Western and Masonville.

Heck you could even omit a rail crossing if you had the BRT connect between Oxford's Thames River bridge and CP underpass where The Belfort Night Club is. That might require some expropriation, but likely cheaper. It's tight, but doable for a BRT-Only Road. Heck, that also bypasses the mixed traffic on Wharncliffe route so you could get the west line going on Oxford to Wonderland.

I've heard the Talbot underpass would be difficult to retrofit because of the sewers under the road. Apparently clearance can't really be gained there without substantial sewer work (or raising the rail line which is a mega task). I'd imagine they would need to incorporate some kind of pumping station since gravity would no longer be able to keep sewage flowing if the road was lowered.

Deviating through the nightclub property is an interesting idea though!