Trillium Line Upgrade/Extension, Stage 2 [Greenboro to Airport/Limebank] | In Service

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Does anyone know how the 9 trains are divided? I am assuming; one between the airport and South Keys; and four each direction along the mainline, from Limebank to Bayview – but that might be incorrect.

From my understanding, two of the old single LINTs will run on Line 4, two double LINTs will run on Line 2, and 6 of the FLIRTs will be on Line 2, with one FLIRT as a spare.

Although it would make sense to have two LINTs as spares so they can be swapped for either line, so my spare ratio may be off.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

When I look at the timeline given, it seems to me that the dark green is labeled as ‘Passenger Service’. Maybe this is a soft-launch? There was talk of having the buses remain for a few months while the Trillium Line was verified as reliable. It might be that this is indicated by the dark green.


{graphic from the CTVnews article: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/oc-transpo-boss-will-not-commit-to-trillium-line-opening-date-1.6842852)

On another note, the ‘Completion of Stations / Occupancy’ is shown, in the graphic, as ending before March. The text of the article states:

I guess that they have slipped a bit on that initiative. Good thing that getting Occupancy Permits is not on the critical path.

Does anyone know how the 9 trains are divided? I am assuming; one between the airport and South Keys; and four each direction along the mainline, from Limebank to Bayview – but that might be incorrect.

Seven trains on Line 2 and two on Line 4.

I was just out at South Keys and I briefly saw what is the ideal scenario, with two Line 2 trains at South Keys with a Line 4 train in the pocket track. This would allow Line 4 to arrive just before Line 2 going north, and Line 4 to depart just after Line 2 going south.

Unfortunately, what I saw today could not be maintained. Line 4 was operating on a 14 minute frequency (instead of 12 minutes), and Line 2 had a skipped trip, so there was a 24 minute gap between trains at South Keys. Then I saw a single Lint train going north at some odd ball time, so there were two Line 2 northbound in a row. That single Lint eventually came back. I also saw Line 2 and 4 trains delayed just south of Hunt Club at a signal, and at one point, two trains in a row waiting to enter South Keys, and then a northbound train at South Keys, with the southbound at Greenboro, which caused a delay, and further delay for Line 4 waiting to come into South Keys.

The running of trains will need to be very precise otherwise the schedule fails on the entire Line 2 and 4. If something goes wrong with the scheduling of any of the 9 trains, it will be very difficult to get everything back on schedule. This could potentially be worse than the scheduling problems that had existed previously with Line 2, and which I had experienced. Previously, the schedule would just float off-time for the whole route. With two routes affected in the future, it may be more complicated.

We are not ready for the final test yet.

[ponyboycurtis]

I would be happy if they just opened the god danged path at South Keys. That detour for x number of years now is wearing thin. Its already graded and edges marked out. Pave it please?

I feel like the other half of the detour/path from Hunt Club was paved in the winter. The concrete, bike shelter, garbage cans are in place. I think they even cut the concrete recently and added the expansion joints. Of course the light standards have exposed/marreted wires sticking out of them with no covers at knee level.

Every day that I happen to use it, either myself or someone else has ripped the wires binding the fencing together and pushed their way through. Stop treating us like idiots.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Seven trains on Line 2 and two on Line 4.

I was just out at South Keys and I briefly saw what is the ideal scenario, with two Line 2 trains at South Keys with a Line 4 train in the pocket track. This would allow Line 4 to arrive just before Line 2 going north, and Line 4 to depart just after Line 2 going south.

Unfortunately, what I saw today could not be maintained. Line 4 was operating on a 14 minute frequency (instead of 12 minutes), and Line 2 had a skipped trip, so there was a 24 minute gap between trains at South Keys. Then I saw a single Lint train going north at some odd ball time, so there were two Line 2 northbound in a row. That single Lint eventually came back. I also saw Line 2 and 4 trains delayed just south of Hunt Club at a signal, and at one point, two trains in a row waiting to enter South Keys, and then a northbound train at South Keys, with the southbound at Greenboro, which caused a delay, and further delay for Line 4 waiting to come into South Keys.

The running of trains will need to be very precise otherwise the schedule fails on the entire Line 2 and 4. If something goes wrong with the scheduling of any of the 9 trains, it will be very difficult to get everything back on schedule. This could potentially be worse than the scheduling problems that had existed previously with Line 2, and which I had experienced. Previously, the schedule would just float off-time for the whole route. With two routes affected in the future, it may be more complicated.

We are not ready for the final test yet.

You might be reading too much into the current testing.. It's explicitly not trial running, and they don't seem to be following the exact schedule. Sometimes the trains seem to sit at South Keys forever, other times they stop for a few seconds then go

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

You might be reading too much into the current testing.. It's explicitly not trial running, and they don't seem to be following the exact schedule. Sometimes the trains seem to sit at South Keys forever, other times they stop for a few seconds then go

At some point, they need to perform schedule adherence testing. This will tell us that 'final trial operation testing' is approaching soon. The kind of testing that is happening at the present time, tells us that we are still a bit away from final testing and opening. I think my observations are a reasonable assessment of the situation. This is consistent with public information saying that we are not yet in a position to announce an opening date.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

At some point, they need to perform schedule adherence testing. This will tell us that 'final trial operation testing' is approaching soon. The kind of testing that is happening at the present time, tells us that we are still a bit away from final testing and opening. I think my observations are a reasonable assessment of the situation. This is consistent with public information saying that we are not yet in a position to announce an opening date.

...it's also consistent with the fact that staff have not given any new timelines for trial running (which council and the public will receive I]daily updates[/I] on once it begins), and the fact that they've indicated that there is still work to complete.

So this is just speculation that tells us nothing that we didn't already know, and doesn't change anyone's expectations for timelines.

[J.OT13]

• Video Link

[lrt's friend]

I watched a peculiar maneuver late this afternoon. The trains were consistently working with northbound mainline trains arriving at South Keys followed about 5 minutes later by the airport train. At one point, the airport train got to the main line first (south of Hunt Club). The mainline train was able to pull around the airport train to return to the normal sequence of trains. I looked at the rail layout shown of GeoOttawa and I wasn't sure how this was accomplished. I guess the most likely scenario is that the airport train was on the west track and the mainline train was in the east track, allowing the mainline train to pass. Then a southbound train crossed over to the east track while the airport train remained on the west track. There is two crossovers from the west track to the east track and one crossover doing the opposite. It seemed that the southbound mainline normally crossed over at the first crossover south of Hunt Club but on one occasion, it appeared that the southbound train crossed over at the second crossover located where the airport spur veers to the west. It was interesting watching these various scenarios.

[lrt's friend]

I spoke to a friend today who lives right next to Walkley Station about the train bells as trains arrive at the station. He wasn't aware of the purpose of the bells, but commented that he hears it all the time. He further said, that where his unit is located, it becomes part of grey noise. He hears it but it does not really bother him. But he wondered about the units at the station end of his building.

[lrt's friend]

The red O sign has been installed on the pedestrian (west) side of South Keys Station. Not yet installed on the shopping centre (east) side of the station.

As announced, weekend testing has begun. Trains are not following any particular schedule.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The red O sign has been installed on the pedestrian (west) side of South Keys Station. Not yet installed on the shopping centre (east) side of the station.

As announced, weekend testing has begun. Trains are not following any particular schedule.

And yet they still haven't paved that path to the bridge😒

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

And yet they still haven't paved that path to the bridge😒

Just like the Carleton University foot bridge, they are not obligated to finish the path until the overall project is open, whenever that might be. Of course, people squeeze through the fence at South Keys all the time. Why spend money to complete the pathway when they won't be paid until the whole project is turned over to the city?

[OTownandDown]

Asphalt plants aren't open yet. When they do open, maybe you'll get lucky.

So are we using AI or something for the crazy amount of switching the line has to do at South Keys? Will the airport train arrive at a mixture of north and south platforms to stay out of the way of the main line? Will people board and have to travel to the northern pocket track and sit and wait? I'm flummoxed about the switching. Why the hell can't we just have normal service like every other city, in which the airport train arrives at the centre, with doors opening on both sides to go north or south on the next line. Like FFS open your eyes to how earth operates.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

And yet they still haven't paved that path to the bridge😒

I reached out to Mr. Brockington a few days ago and he got a response back earlier this afternoon.

Good afternoon,



Here is what I found out regarding the pathway:



“We have reached out TNEXT and the City’s construction team, and they have confirmed that although the pathway might look like it is ready to be opened, a few crucial things need to be completed. TransitNEXT still has toe wall construction and paving to complete before the final alignment of the pathway leading to South Keys Station can be opened. Asphalt plants are opening for the season soon, so we should be able to provide some more information on timelines shortly. The final alignment is not tied to substantial completion, we just need those final pieces of work to be completed.

In the meantime, we will ensure continuous access to South Keys Station and the Plaza from the pathway using the detour. Traffic Staff visited this work site have fixed the fencing and signage to eliminate any confusion about whether that section is open.”



Sincerely,

Riley

The path not being tied to substantial completion is pretty telling.. AKA.. we'll get to it when we get to it. So that sucks.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Asphalt plants aren't open yet. When they do open, maybe you'll get lucky.

So are we using AI or something for the crazy amount of switching the line has to do at South Keys? Will the airport train arrive at a mixture of north and south platforms to stay out of the way of the main line? Will people board and have to travel to the northern pocket track and sit and wait? I'm flummoxed about the switching. Why the hell can't we just have normal service like every other city, in which the airport train arrives at the centre, with doors opening on both sides to go north or south on the next line. Like FFS open your eyes to how earth operates.

While the interlining is a bit unusual, the switching is not. Many services do this at the end of the line.E.g
If you've ever been to Waterfront station in Vancouver, the trains offload everyone, move past the station, switch, and then come back on the other side, rather then doing like what Toronto does and you have to look at the sign to know which train is the next to leave because either side of the platform is used.

South Keys and Trim will be the only station in Ottawa that uses a proper island platform for the end of the line. All the other stations will be like the mess at Tunney's

[SL123]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

South Keys and Trim will be the only station in Ottawa that uses a proper island platform for the end of the line. All the other stations will be like the mess at Tunney's

Algonquin Station is also an island platform for the end of the line

[DTcrawler]

So really just the Moodie and Limebank termini stations will have side platforms. It wouldn't be an issue if they weren't such cheap bastards (difficult, I know) and put more than one tiny little LED sign displaying the platform number on it. Bonus points if they could actually place the sign in the line of sight of people entering the station.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

South Keys and Trim will be the only station in Ottawa that uses a proper island platform for the end of the line. All the other stations will be like the mess at Tunney's

Tunney's is only temporarily the end of the line.

[OTownandDown]

I get the end of the line switching, that's fine, but what happens when a northbound train is in the way of the arriving airport train? And then a southbound train arrives just the same moment, a double wait? I know it may not be much of a wait, just have to get the trains out of the way, but will the operators need to actively talk to eachother? Will the automated systems take over? Will the airport train need to wait out on it's own track even before the interlining, for a southbound train to unload at south keys before it can even enter the line? It just seems a bit chaotic. (And here I'm assuming the airport train makes way for Line 2. Is that always the case?) Will a Line 2 train have to wait for an airport train that just arrived before it?

I've been on the loop in Chicago, and so I know what the waiting is like, and I was nervous the whole time, waiting to be t-boned by an oncoming train (even though it ... rarely happens). At least in Chicago all the trains are running .. in a loop.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I'd like to see a simulation, lol

Originally Posted by kmcamp

While the interlining is a bit unusual, the switching is not. Many services do this at the end of the line.E.g
If you've ever been to Waterfront station in Vancouver, the trains offload everyone, move past the station, switch, and then come back on the other side, rather then doing like what Toronto does and you have to look at the sign to know which train is the next to leave because either side of the platform is used.

South Keys and Trim will be the only station in Ottawa that uses a proper island platform for the end of the line. All the other stations will be like the mess at Tunney's

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

While the interlining is a bit unusual, the switching is not. Many services do this at the end of the line.E.g
If you've ever been to Waterfront station in Vancouver, the trains offload everyone, move past the station, switch, and then come back on the other side, rather then doing like what Toronto does and you have to look at the sign to know which train is the next to leave because either side of the platform is used.

South Keys and Trim will be the only station in Ottawa that uses a proper island platform for the end of the line. All the other stations will be like the mess at Tunney's

What OTownandDown is suggesting is different though. It's the most logical and convenient way to handle this transfer.

3 tracks, 2 platforms. Middle track is exclusively for the airport train, accessible from both sides.

You arrive from the North and there is already an airport train waiting for you just across the platform with open doors. No waiting, no walking, less track switching, and it's next to impossible to get lost.

The reason they didn't do it is money. They would rather spend it on those monster stations in the middle of nowhere nobody uses than make a cumbersome connection smoother.