Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Thinking more about Porter's potential Caribbean expansions, I wonder if there's a world where they just take over TS' destinations for next winter. Vacation packages could still be booked through Transat, with the flights operated by Porter.

I imagine TS will continue to base a 321 at YOW for winter 2024-25. Hopefully with some PD codesharing with connections enabled where they’re feasible. The big hope would be for a TS 321LR to be based at YOW for summer 2025.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I imagine TS will continue to base a 321 at YOW for winter 2024-25. Hopefully with some PD codesharing with connections enabled where they’re feasible. The big hope would be for a TS 321LR to be based at YOW for summer 2025.

I'm hoping TS starts increasing routes in YOW with all the PD volume coming in. LGW more specifically.

CTV now has an article on the interview. https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/porter-airline...to-california-vegas-carribbean-1.6845225

Something that wasn't in the other one confirming increased Florida capacity/new Florida routes for this coming winter: "You'll see more Florida next winter. You're going to see western U.S. markets, which is something the airport has long wanted."

I don't know if that last bit about Western US is also part of "next winter" or not.

[JakeLRS]

Flair's January transborder loads:

Ft. Lauderdale - 78.39%
Total Passengers: 4593
Total Seats Available: 5859

Las Vegas - 81.33%
Total Passengers: 2767
Total Seats Available: 3402

Sanford - ~60.09% (only YOW-SFB data available)
Total Passengers: 795
Total Seats Available: 1323

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

Within the articles and great news we also find cautious undertones:

“We want to be the hometown airline in Ottawa”
“We will continue to put faith in Ottawa as a market”
“We are going to continue (adding routes) as long as the community is using the service”
“There is tremendous opportunity for Ottawa”

Porter has a plan and a vision for Ottawa and will give us every opportunity to seize it. Will we? Same goes with others like AF and whoever else might take a chance here. Ottawans will need to decide what kind of air services they will demand and support. By extension I see it as a decision on what kind of city they want to build.

There are encouraging signs. More please.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/porter-airline...to-california-vegas-carribbean-1.6845225

"You'll see more Florida next winter. You're going to see western U.S. markets, which is something the airport has long wanted."

With F8 unlikely to come back to YOW-Florida next winter, I think “more Florida” will equate to TPA 4x weekly, RSW 3x weekly, a 2nd daily MCO and daily MIA or a 2nd daily FLL.

I think starting LAS next fall is just about in the bag and probably daily to boot if I were to bet.

[YOWflier]

I’m really torn about Flair. On one hand having them around is good in that it helps to anchor everyone else’s fares a bit, but on the other hand they dilute some of our markets, especially borderline ones, which affects growth by the carrier we want to grow (PD). Having them out of the way is probably a net benefit but the fares will climb.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 66, including 7 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 4

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I’m really torn about Flair. On one hand having them around is good in that it helps to anchor everyone else’s fares a bit, but on the other hand they dilute some of our markets, especially borderline ones, which affects growth by the carrier we want to grow (PD). Having them out of the way is probably a net benefit but the fares will climb.

I think some/many in this city (esp. in this forum) are happy to pay more to support PD because of the investment they’ve put forth at YOW. However, we can’t forget about how many frugal flyers there are in Ottawa who might’ve been willing to take a direct F8 flight out of YOW but will go back to driving to YYZ/YUL if F8 pulls out or folds, regardless of whether PD offers a direct option to the same destination from YOW. Of course, the market will dictate price competitiveness on its own to an extent, factoring in service, convenience, status, and other factors.

Personally, I like having Flair as an option. My buddies and I were part of those Jan pax stats for LAS. I paid for the $30 Hopper flight insurance at checkout and ended up having my entire $189 R/T fare refunded because the return flight was delayed 2.5 hrs (which is beyond the 2hr threshold). Helped soften the blow from the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 losses.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 70, including 6 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

[fanofYOW]

Genuine question for the experts. Hypothetically, with this groundbreaking article about PD wanting to serve the Western US from YOW, let's say another carrier like AC or WS wants to start it before PD gets there, how likely would YOW AA flat out say no as to not obstruct PD's plans? If they don't, how likely would it stop PD from launching these services?

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Genuine question for the experts. Hypothetically, with this groundbreaking article about PD wanting to serve the Western US from YOW, let's say another carrier like AC or WS wants to start it before PD gets there, how likely would YOW AA flat out say no as to not obstruct PD's plans? If they don't, how likely would it stop PD from launching these services?

Not even remotely close to an expert but I think it'd be flat out idiotic for the AA to intervene and limit a potential new route offering for this market. Sure we all want to support PD in their endeavour to be "Ottawa's airline" but this is still a competitive market after all. Things can change between now and whenever PD decides to launch said routes and if PD's promise happened to fall through, and it came out that such routes were being offered by other airlines but were turned down by the AA, it'd be a really bad look. Especially in a city where we're so desperate for more nonstop options, regardless of the carrier.

Just my opinion, could be completely wrong.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Not even remotely close to an expert but I think it'd be flat out idiotic for the AA to intervene and limit a potential new route offering for this market. Sure we all want to support PD in their endeavour to be "Ottawa's airline" but this is still a competitive market after all. Things can change between now and whenever PD decides to launch said routes and if PD's promise happened to fall through, and it came out that such routes were being offered by other airlines but were turned down by the AA, it'd be a really bad look. Especially in a city where we're so desperate for more nonstop options, regardless of the carrier.

Just my opinion, could be completely wrong.

Thanks for that. I can see your point but I may argue that AA might turn it down to be honest. PD seems to be YOW's last hope and an attempt to start such routes may quash that hope. Although bad for airport-airine relations, business is business, which is probably the term AC uses when questioned about routes from non-hubs.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Genuine question for the experts. Hypothetically, with this groundbreaking article about PD wanting to serve the Western US from YOW, let's say another carrier like AC or WS wants to start it before PD gets there, how likely would YOW AA flat out say no as to not obstruct PD's plans? If they don't, how likely would it stop PD from launching these services?

Seems very much like a moot point. WS certainly not dropping into Ottawa with such a route. Air Canada doesn't seem to have any interest in maintaining market share here. They had some cut rate fares on PD's Toronto routes but don't seem to want to compete on metal.

[Coho]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Genuine question for the experts. Hypothetically, with this groundbreaking article about PD wanting to serve the Western US from YOW, let's say another carrier like AC or WS wants to start it before PD gets there, how likely would YOW AA flat out say no as to not obstruct PD's plans? If they don't, how likely would it stop PD from launching these services?

AC doesn't have any slack in the fleet to compete against PD if they start launching all these routes out of YOW. AC is going to focus on it's hub operations out of YVR/YYZ/YUL before it starts point to point routes out of YOW against PD.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 78, including 7 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 73, including 5 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

[RomanR27]

Last day of Sunwing ops. Ferry flight tomorrow evening scheduled for the remaining Smartwings fin based here to return to Europe.

Come to think of it, this is the last day ever of Sunwing ops at YOW if the merger goes as planned?

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Coho

AC doesn't have any slack in the fleet to compete against PD if they start launching all these routes out of YOW. AC is going to focus on it's hub operations out of YVR/YYZ/YUL before it starts point to point routes out of YOW against PD.

I don't think people get the crew shortage post covid. There are also fewer planes in some cases.

Air Canada express pilot numbers are down post covid, they lost many to the USA and are trying to get people back up to trained levels. For wide bodies they have fewer wide body planes in 2024 vs 2018.

WestJet was Q400's parked (its about 1/3 of their fleet). They don't have the pilots to fly them. So many former Q400 flights are dropped or moved to a 737's out West. There crew bases are all out west except for Toronto. Almost no slack in there system.

Porter can focus on there growth in Ottawa be know they have space as others have big constraints post covid. Something Porter isn't facing.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 75 including 7 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

I don't think people get the crew shortage post covid. There are also fewer planes in some cases.

I don't get this pilot shortage, I've known quite a few people who were trained as pilots here in Ottawa who gave up because they could not find work. One of my friends ended up living in Northern Quebec for year to fly for Creebec and just got tired and found another career back in Ottawa after 15 years of flying

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

I don't get this pilot shortage, I've known quite a few people who were trained as pilots here in Ottawa who gave up because they could not find work. One of my friends ended up living in Northern Quebec for year to fly for Creebec and just got tired and found another career back in Ottawa after 15 years of flying

The combination of the pandemic and an aging workforce have led to shortages in the industry.