Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Some more data from the OECD regarding labor productivity.

Real growth (i.e. inflation deducted) of the GDP per worker from 2015 to 2022:
- Prince Edward Island: +12.5%
- British Columbia: +11.9%
- Saskatchewan: +8.6%
- Québec: +7.1%
- New Brunswick: +6.0%
- Ontario: +3.0%
CANADA: +2.8%
- Nova Scotia: +1.8%
- Manitoba: +0.8%
- Newfoundland and Labrador: -1.2%
- Alberta: -6.9%

Québec doing better than the rest of Canada, but not the highest productivity growth in the country. British Columbia doing much better in particular (any explanation?).

And compared to some OECD countries:
- Czech Republic: +13.7%
- South Korea: +11.5%
- Sweden: +10.8%
- USA: +9.1%
- Québec: +7.1%
- UK: +4.9%
- Germany: +2.9%
- Canada: +2.8%
- Italy: +2.4%
- Belgium: +2.4%
- The Netherlands: +2.3%
- Australia: +2.1%
- Spain: +1.0%
- Greece: +0.0%
- France: -0.6%
- Mexico: -6.6%

The bad figure for France is because it was starting from very high (until recently France had the highest hourly labor productivity in the world, higher than even the US, but it's been passed by the US in the past 4 years or so), and the productivity has stagnated due to the decrease of the unemployment rate under Macron (more less skilled people taking menial jobs).

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Canada in general has very bad private business investment numbers and Québec is even worse.

I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that even today a large share of the people who control Québec's economy have little attachment to the place.

Quebec also fails at going the Australian resource extraction route when it can't juice other sectors of its economy.

Hydro Quebec wants to be an export powerhouse, but can't build enough dams to keep pace with demand.

Projects like GNL Quebec get rejected for dubious political reasons.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've mentioned it before but I find the Canadian business mindset is largely oriented towards building something just big enough so that a bigger fish will buy you out and you won't have to work another day in your life. It's not really the ambitious go-getter mindset where you're never satisfied and are always looking to get bigger and better.

If you look at the largest corporations in Canada the list is top-heavy with heavyweights that are in sectors protected by the Canadian government from foreign involvement. It so happens that for those there is little incentive or even a possibility to take a buy out from a larger entity, especially since it's usually going to be American.

Big Canadian-owned corporations that are unsheltered by our government and that have staying power out there on the global free market are extremely rare.

Bang on. For most Canadian and Quebecois companies, the most exotic locale they'll expand to is USA. If that fails, then they'll retreat back to Canada to remain a small bit player, and pray that someday they can join the elite club of government protected oligopolies. I guess because Canada itself effectively sits as an island (turtle island to be exact) without any visceral geopolitical or economic threats, Canadians and Quebecois alike are content to live in a constant state of blissful ignorance and isolation. This mindset extends to the country's business environment, like when Toronto was trying to promote itself as the "nice person's" silicon valley, which IMO just sounds like we aren't the least bit competitive.

I've always been surprised how little presence Quebec companies and funds have in France, despite the cultural affinities, CETA, etc. You would think France is the natural regional/international expansion HQ for Quebec companies if they have the foresight to look beyond the super competitive American market. French enterprises on the other hand are very active in Quebec. I wouldn't be surprised if CDPQ is the most active Quebec institution in France.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I've always been surprised how little presence Quebec companies and funds have in France

Bombardier, Caisse des dépôts du Québec, Céline Dion (a business of its own).

The Paris Region has been criticized for buying Bombardier trains instead of French trains.

CETA, by the way, was rejected by the French Senate last weeek.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Bang on. For most Canadian and Quebecois companies, the most exotic locale they'll expand to is USA. If that fails, then they'll retreat back to Canada to remain a small bit player, and pray that someday they can join the elite club of government protected oligopolies. I guess because Canada itself effectively sits as an island (turtle island to be exact) without any visceral geopolitical or economic threats, Canadians and Quebecois alike are content to live in a constant state of blissful ignorance and isolation. This mindset extends to the country's business environment, like when Toronto was trying to promote itself as the "nice person's" silicon valley, which IMO just sounds like we aren't the least bit competitive.

I've always been surprised how little presence Quebec companies and funds have in France, despite the cultural affinities, CETA, etc. You would think France is the natural regional/international expansion HQ for Quebec companies if they have the foresight to look beyond the super competitive American market. French enterprises on the other hand are very active in Quebec. I wouldn't be surprised if CDPQ is the most active Quebec institution in France.

As I’ve mentioned before it’s a fairly recent thing to have large francophone-controlled corporations in Quebec, plus since forever the economic rails in Canada have been greased to favour trade with the US (and historically the UK even).

I’d say commercial ties with France are growing though.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Bombardier, Caisse des dépôts du Québec, Céline Dion (a business of its own).

The Paris Region has been criticized for buying Bombardier trains instead of French trains.

CETA, by the way, was rejected by the French Senate last weeek.

Yes, so pretty much CDPQ doing all the heavy lifting in France from their London regional HQ. I guess the local Parisien press doesn't realize that Bombardier rail got acquired by Alstrom?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As I’ve mentioned before it’s a fairly recent thing to have large francophone-controlled corporations in Quebec, plus since forever the economic rails in Canada have been greased to favour trade with the US (and historically the UK even).

I’d say commercial ties with France are growing though.

I've been reading a book recently by some historians who say in the 1740s and 1750s trade between Canada and France was finally picking up (after 150 years of the French people treating Canada like a useless wilderness). Recently in some 18th century archives in Paris (for a research I'm doing) I've seen various traces of it (billets de commerce with Montréal from the 1750s, rents paid in Montréal, etc, oddly always Montréal and not Québec City, which shows Montréal was already starting to surpass Québec City in the 1750s in terms of economic importance). If the maudits Anglais had not conquered Québec in 1760, I wonder where all of this would have led... I suppose by 1800 Canada would have loomed large in French minds, with lots of trade and many French people migrating there.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I guess the local Parisien press doesn't realize that Bombardier rail got acquired by Alstrom?

The workers are still in Canada, aren't they?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The workers are still in Canada, aren't they?

Isn't the Bombardier manufacturing plant churning out the rail cars for RATP in Crespin? So French workers. The plant's been rebranded as Alstrom from what I recall.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Isn't the Bombardier manufacturing plant churning out the rail cars for RATP in Crespin?

No idea, as I haven't been following this. I just know there was some criticism for the choice of a "foreign" company.

That said, Bombardier's trains are far better air conditioned than French-made trains (for the Paris Region I mean, not for long distance). It seems they brought their North American culture of AC with them. French trains in the Paris Region (métro, RER) are not good in terms of AC (if they have any).

[New Brisavoine]

Le 1er ministre de la France vous parle !

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That said, Bombardier's trains are far better air conditioned than French-made trains (for the Paris Region I mean, not for long distance). It seems they brought their North American culture of AC with them. French trains in the Paris Region (métro, RER) are not good in terms of AC (if they have any).

Funny enough, Montreal metro's Bombardier Azur trains have no AC, following their Parisien counterparts. But the Alstom Montreal REM trains on the other hand do have AC.

[Acajack]

"'au Canada ET au Québec"

[MolsonExport]

"En France ET en Bretagne"

[mousquet]

^

Bon, the sieur Brisavoine sweating the thread more than he should...

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That said, Bombardier's trains are far better air conditioned than French-made trains (for the Paris Region I mean, not for long distance). It seems they brought their North American culture of AC with them. French trains in the Paris Region (métro, RER) are not good in terms of AC (if they have any).

Trains running underground over some distance have to use "ventilation réfrigérée" (something like refrigerated ventilation, though Idk whether literal translation makes much sense) instead of actual A/C because the latter would heat tunnels and platforms way too much. That would really be unbearable in a heatwave.

Besides, you know it already. I don't even know why replying to your usual complaints.

To be fair, their ventilation system works decently in latest trains. It doesn't have to freeze in trains when outdoor temperature hits 40°C, eh.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Funny enough, Montreal metro's Bombardier Azur trains have no AC, following their Parisien counterparts.

How old are they?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"'au Canada ET au Québec"

Yup.

Both words are synonyms in French minds anyway.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Trains running underground over some distance have to use "ventilation réfrigérée" (something like refrigerated ventilation, though Idk whether literal translation makes much sense) instead of actual A/C because the latter would heat tunnels and platforms way too much.

Oh please, not that tired old BS!! Métros in Madrid, NYC, and plenty other cities fully demonstrate it's perfectly possible to have an underground subway that has real AC (at least the trains if not the stations). The reason why we don't have proper AC is because the Paris public transports authority doesn't want to invest the money, or thinks it's ok to have Parisians sweating in trains whose temperature is routinely 35 degrees C in summer (as often measured by clients, which they call "usagers" in French, instead of "clients", which tells you everything you need to know about how these bastards in the higher spheres consider us).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"'au Canada ET au Québec"

I see that some people haven't appreciated that bit of his tweet. To be honest, I hadn't even noticed it, because in France it's just normal to say it the way he said it. It's understood as meaning "I'm going to visit Ottawa and Québec City (or Montréal)". Of course now that I think about it, no French politician would speak like that about any other country (for example, if he visited Washington DC and then the Silicon Valley, I cannot imagine that he would say "Je suis pour quelques jours aux Etats-Unis et en Californie").



Most comments below his tweet, however, are along the lines of "taking some vacation with taxpayers money!" or "feel free to learn about Canada's legalization of cannabis".

[mousquet]

^ There may be some alternative system to develop and enhance in their refrigerated ventilation. Who knows? It may be something interesting.
You have to admit that the fact that AC works like a dull fridge, emitting a load of heat to the outside is a problem.
I'm not impressed by old-style AC, because it is surely ancient, just like fridges.

And again, refrigerated ventilation works pretty much as expected in latest RER and métro trains.
The transit agency should indeed extend it faster all over the network, but then the budget of the French public sector is in a pitiful shape anyway.
That you're aware of too.