800 Granville Street | 137.5m | 42, 38 fl | Proposed

[Spr0ckets]

The project could come back to life at some point down the road.

Just not in the same form, or for most of the same uses.
Certianly not with anywhere close to that much office space in this market

I could see a redesign with the first three or 4 floors retaining some mix of retail and maybe one or two levels of office, while still preserving the heritage street-facing faces as in this design, and then (much smaller footprint) hotel and/or residential tower above.

But I'd guess any redesign and application resubmittal might wait to see how other properties under redevelopment on Granville (by the Bonnis family and others) such as the Rec room and 950 Granville do once they open, before they decide how they want to move forward.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

The project could come back to life at some point down the road.

Just not in the same form, or for most of the same uses.
Certianly not with anywhere close to that much office space in this market

I could see a redesign with the first three or 4 floors retaining some mix of retail and maybe one or two levels of office, while still preserving the heritage street-facing faces as in this design, and then (much smaller footprint) hotel and/or residential tower above.

But I'd guess any redesign and application resubmittal might wait to see how other properties under redevelopment on Granville (by the Bonnis family and others) such as the Rec room and 950 Granville do once they open, before they decide how they want to move forward.

Anything is possible, but Bonnis said they are selling 950 Granville once it's complete, and they've put at least three other Downtown properties on the market. Anything like the project you describe would make no economic sense, as the cost of engineering the span over the Commodore Ballroom would only be possible for a massive building like the project they proposed. It might make sense to redevelop north of the ballroom, and leave the Commodore alone. None of the heritage buildings are especially valuable in historical terms, and 720 Robson replaced a similar old building over 10 years ago, so there's a precident. That block would need a zoning change to allow residential, and it seems unlikely to be supported, but a hotel would be fine.

[GenWhy?]

And you could build as tall as Vancouver Block without going into Viewcone 12.2. Don't think they're getting rid of that one anytime soon (then again this site won't be in development anytime soon either).

[Spr0ckets]

Well, that's a shame.

Yeah, 10 years ago the office market wasn't what it is today - or rather the office market as it is today wasn't in the same state 10 years go, so I'm not really sure if that precedent would apply any more.

It's also a shame that they likely wouldn't support an application seeking to rezone it to mixed use including residential use (and yes, I get it, and understand why) - even in that part of downtown - especially in a situation where having that residential component would be critical to allowing a project redevelopment some financial viability, and instead let it continue as part of the further wider and ongoing deterioration of Granville Street.
Rather than being part of a process to kick-start its revitalization.

[Vin]

Previous City & Planning people took too long to approve this. That's why it is scrapped.

I am actually happy about this only because destruction of the heritage elements won't happen now. Pray the same will also happen to the Bay as well as Sinclair Centre.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Vin

Previous City & Planning people took too long to approve this. That's why it is scrapped.

I am actually happy about this only because destruction of the heritage elements won't happen now. Pray the same will also happen to the Bay as well as Sinclair Centre.

It's funny you say that because as it currently stands, it would seem like if this block is ever to get redeveloped in the future, then some, if not all of those heritage elements being sacrificed might be the only way it actually gets done.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

Previous City & Planning people took too long to approve this. That's why it is scrapped.

I think it got scrapped because it's a high-end office building.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Previous City & Planning people took too long to approve this. That's why it is scrapped.

The rezoning was submitted in November 2022, after ABC were elected with a majority on City Council. The previous Council had nothing to do with any delay. If there was any truth that it was scrapped because of delays in City Hall, it would be thanks to ABC.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

It's funny you say that because as it currently stands, it would seem like if this block is ever to get redeveloped in the future, then some, if not all of those heritage elements being sacrificed might be the only way it actually gets done.

Doesn't seem like it was the cost of rejuvenation that killed the project so much as the office slump.

[officedweller]

I'd rather see two buildings - one north of the Commodore and one south of it
(if the corner building at Smithe is redeveloped, that could straddle just the Orpheum entrance, which would be less costly than straddling the Commodore, but not sure if the City would cooperate unless it's a City-led project).

I don't really find the heritage buildings north of the Commodore really significant.
A landmark design would help anchor the corner better than the existing buildings.

[jollyburger]

Previous message is in the Downtown thread but moving the rest of the discussion into the appropriate thread.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10337751&postcount=879

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

But of (more) interest (....to me, anyway) in that article was Kerry Bonnis of Bonnis Properties who are probably the largest landowners and landlords on the Granville strip - with their family owning most of the property you see in that section of Granville Street - talking about the revision and (possibly soon to be) resubmission of their mega office proposal project across the street from the Rec Room at 800 Granville St., and the key points from his remarks (no images at this point) was how it will likely be reconfigured from primarily office use into mainly hotel use and market rental - with the form going from extensive horizontally based office floorplates stretching across the entire block (Which city officials did not like due to potential shadowing on the street below) to more vertically distributed density in the form of possibly two towers that would likely be able to go much taller than the previous proposal thanks to the city's relaxation of some of the restrictive viewcones.

The proposal?

Rezoning resubmission for New CD-1 - Rezone from DD to CD-1 to permit a 42-storey mixed-use development consisting of commercial retail, residential, hotel and cultural space, with heritage retention, over four partial levels of underground parking and a 38-storey residential building with SRA replacement (potential). Proposal includes: - Commercial retail space at grade; - A max building height of 137.5 m (451 ft.); - A floor space ratio (FSR) of 14.5; - A floor area of 64,624 sq. m (695,611 sq. ft.); - Retention and preservation of the Commodore Ballroom and Lanes (VHR category 'A'); - Retention of the façades of the State Hotel at 876 Granville Street (VHR Category 'C'), Service Building, and Cameron Block; - Approximately 119,600 sq. ft. of commercial the first 4-levels including the Commodore Ballroom (17,360 sq. ft.); - Approx. 13,250 sq. ft. of restaurant at level 5; - Approx. 48,000 sq. ft. of hotel at levels 6 to 8; - Approx. 15,000 sq. ft. of SRA replacement; - Approximately 455,000 sq. ft. of rental residential floor area; and - 178 vehicle parking spaces and 1,176 bicycle parking spaces.

https://plposweb.vancouver.ca/Public/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=Guest&PosseObjectId=169631283

[madog222]

Great find Jolly! They tried to pull a fast one by updating the existing application instead of submitting a new one.

To summarize that gargled mess:
-two towers, 42 and 38 stories
-137.5m height
-14.5 fsr for 695k sf total

[jollyburger]

Old proposal:

~100,000 ft² of three levels retail at the podium
~50,000 ft² of F&B and cultural space at level 4
~460,000 ft² of 13 levels office space above the
cultural transition zone

New proposal

~119,600 ft² of commercial the first 4-levels including the Commodore Ballroom (17,360 sq. ft.);
~13,250 ft² of restaurant at level 5
~48,000 ft² of hotel at levels 6 to 8;
~15,000 ft² of SRA replacement;
~455,000 ft² of rental residential floor area;

We might get the Granville Street Planning draft soon

Draft plan directions
Granville Street planning is currently at this stage
Spring - Winter 2024

Staff will create draft directions for Granville Street and present these back to the community before finalizing the plan in early 2025.

Finalize the draft plan this is an upcoming stage for Granville Street planning
Spring 2025

Staff will bring back to Council a final plan for their consideration in the spring of 2025.

https://www.shapeyourcity.ca/granville-street-planning

[madog222]

By the floor areas given it looks like this new proposal doesn’t build over the Commodore as the previous proposal did. It seems that one tower and all commercial will be at 800-834 Granville north of the Commodore.

That would leave the other tower to occupy the 50’ wide 872 Granville.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by madog222

By the floor areas given it looks like this new proposal doesn’t build over the Commodore as the previous proposal did. It seems that one tower and all commercial will be at 800-834 Granville north of the Commodore.

That would leave the other tower to occupy the 50’ wide 872 Granville.

Are we certain it isn't just one 38 storey tower with a large floorplate, over a 4-storey commercial podium, (with hotel on a few floors)? A 50' wide tower would seem to be very expensive and complicated to construct. It would be a first here, in terms of skinny, if it was built. 526 Granville was a 24 office on a 50 foot site (also a Bonnis proposal), and that seemed very ambitious, (and now isn't going ahead).

[jollyburger]

I just went through the DH article and it says the original podium design across the entire site will be kept. Along with two distinct towers in the new design.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I just went through the DH article and it says the original podium design across the entire site will be kept. Along with two distinct towers in the new design.

It does say 2 towers. I guess we should see the proposed design next year. And then wait to see if it gets rezoned (and it seems more promising than the office scheme) and then whether it actually gets built. Still no sign of anything happening on the site the same developer cleared on Robson Street, which was rumoured to be switched from the approved office to a hotel. At least a vacant site is unlikely to collapse!

[officedweller]

Hopefully they don't build over the Commodore at all.
That proposed block-long video screen was too overwhelming/dominating.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Hopefully they don't build over the Commodore at all.
That proposed block-long video screen was too overwhelming/dominating.

Huh? It’s Granville street, perfect location for that. Don’t go to Times Square, you’ll have panic attacks

[jollyburger]

I wonder if this will be a one off since the site is so large if they are going to allow even more development along Granville.

Just re-read the Granville Street planning page and it says the public engagement starts in February 2025.