Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by rdaner

I wonder if an Icelandic airline would do well from Ottawa? The GTHA now has two airports with Reyjavik flights.

I could see PLAY trying out YOW.

They seem to be doing very well in the summer from YHM, just okay during the winter.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I mean for sure I can see this being a bit disruptive to AF but not enough to take them out. I’m sure they can coexist with a downgrade from an a350 to a daily 789. For me personally, AF is still far more attractive for beyond CDG destinations. But that’s just me. I still think YOW can support multiple daily European departures. My preference is more foreign carriers over AC. BA, KLM, and even EI as you mentioned would all be great options. Also, Icelandair to me is a no brainer with PD hubbing here. AF has been increasing capacity at an incredible pace so the demand from YOW to Europe (and avoiding YYZ and YUL) is definitely there.

Since British Airways cut the Calgary YYC service in Western Canada at end of 2019, they haven’t really added much capacity in Canada like KLM/Air France year round. (BA only increases frequency of flights✈️) to both Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR during Spring & Summer seasons or busy periods✅. While Montreal YUL 1x daily on BA has remained the same & no change.

I don’t think Ottawa YOW has the demand for multiple Europe flights yet, (if) there was airlines would have added.

It’s tough to avoid connecting in Toronto YYZ or Montreal YUL when there are plenty of International flight options compared to YOW✅.

[YOWflier]

Not accurate. Ottawa has before and will again support numerous destinations, notwithstanding our limitations. Demand isn’t on that list.

[Dominion301]

Definitely not accurate otherwise AF wouldn’t have increased capacity 4 times in less than a year of service to YOW.

The old “if the demand was there, someone would have already been serving it” adage wee actually true, it implies that every single market is already being optimally served. It simply isn’t true. Otherwise airlines wouldn’t ever expand.

Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that there’s more demand between YQB and London or YYT and London than between YOW and London? O&D demand from the latter is at least double the former two combined, yet it’s the former two with nonstop service at present, even if it is only on a summer seasonal basis. In the cases of both those airlines, it was strategic for them to pick YQB and YYT over YOW and not because it makes any logical sense. Airports compete for airline resources all the time. When you’re in the shadow of two big hubs, it’s easy to get overlooked.

Take the other London, YXU. The city in excess of 1/2 million population currently only has service domestically to YYZ 3x a day and YYC daily and a bit more this summer. That’s a fraction what YXU used to have. It’s not as if air travel demand is still half or less of what it was in 2019. It’s that there’s literally nobody offering capacity to the market.

Eventually someone will operate YOW-LON again. It’s just a matter of when and whom. AC on the XLR around 2026-27 is the most likely but TS with the PD alliance becomes a possibility. Ditto BA, especially if PD were ever to become a BA codeshare partner. Unlike BA entering YYC, at YOW they’d have the market to themselves.

Heck even WS would be a possibility if they were to be handed a bag full of cash like Newfoundland gave them to restore transatlantic service to The Rock.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 81, including 8 sun flights (including RSW that is missing from the departure FIDS again)

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

This could be the day that 80 is broken for the first time since March 2020. Will need to monitor later today for cancellations.

[Tesladom]

I think people who are not familiar with how airports and airlines work think its as simple as adding a flight. There are numerous issues at play, most of which are related to landing rights are the major airports.
If AC wants to add a flight to LHR, they will need to use of their existing slots (or try to buy a new one) for YOW.
The biggest constraint on flights to LHR for example are landing slots, so airlines will use them in the most profitable (high volume) way.
If you are AC, you look at maximizing the revenue potential in all your precious LHR slots.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

I think people who are not familiar with how airports and airlines work think its as simple as adding a flight. There are numerous issues at play, most of which are related to landing rights are the major airports.
If AC wants to add a flight to LHR, they will need to use of their existing slots (or try to buy a new one) for YOW.
The biggest constraint on flights to LHR for example are landing slots, so airlines will use them in the most profitable (high volume) way.
If you are AC, you look at maximizing the revenue potential in all your precious LHR slots.

Yup. For whatever reasons they have, AC currently believe leasing out some of their LHR slots is more profitable than flying YOW-LHR on a 788 at present. They also believe allocating that 788 is more profitable flying a hub route than from YOW. Tough to blame them for that line of thinking. All of AC’s focus cities are way smaller now than in 2019, be it YOW, YHZ, YWG, YYC or YEG. YHZ-LHR survives thanks to geography and the usage of the airline’s least desirable LHR slot. I saw an article about North American airline seat capacity and AC stood out by being -11% in seat capacity vs 2019 this summer. Part of that can be attributed to pilot shortages and wages.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Definitely not accurate otherwise AF wouldn’t have increased capacity 4 times in less than a year of service to YOW.

The old “if the demand was there, someone would have already been serving it” adage wee actually true, it implies that every single market is already being optimally served. It simply isn’t true. Otherwise airlines wouldn’t ever expand.

Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that there’s more demand between YQB and London or YYT and London than between YOW and London? O&D demand from the latter is at least double the former two combined, yet it’s the former two with nonstop service at present, even if it is only on a summer seasonal basis. In the cases of both those airlines, it was strategic for them to pick YQB and YYT over YOW and not because it makes any logical sense. Airports compete for airline resources all the time. When you’re in the shadow of two big hubs, it’s easy to get overlooked.

Take the other London, YXU. The city in excess of 1/2 million population currently only has service domestically to YYZ 3x a day and YYC daily and a bit more this summer. That’s a fraction what YXU used to have. It’s not as if air travel demand is still half or less of what it was in 2019. It’s that there’s literally nobody offering capacity to the market.

Eventually someone will operate YOW-LON again. It’s just a matter of when and whom. AC on the XLR around 2026-27 is the most likely but TS with the PD alliance becomes a possibility. Ditto BA, especially if PD were ever to become a BA codeshare partner. Unlike BA entering YYC, at YOW they’d have the market to themselves.

Heck even WS would be a possibility if they were to be handed a bag full of cash like Newfoundland gave them to restore transatlantic service to The Rock.

YYT - London is a narrow body, fairly short flight, doesn't have any decent connection options and has a big subsidy from the government.

If YYT was 1000 KM east it would not have a flight to London. No bearing on Ottawa, just going over why that route exists.

If Ottawa wants London they should be pushing WestJet, mostly because they can do it on a narrow body which has a much much lower operating costs for that sort of flight. But it will likely take a subsidy for a year or two.

[fanofYOW]

Doesn’t TS have a partnership with Easyjet in Gatwick? If so, that would be another great point on why TS should run it.

[SimpleEng]

Hi,

On the topic of landing slots, I'm curious why AC/TS/BA/WS/VS are unable to reuse their existing landing slots to add YOW<->LHR or YOW<->LGW ?

Are all of their landing slots truly at 100% capacity? Or is there a fixed cost increase from adding another destination? Something else?

We're flying to LHR again this spring and forever hoping for AC's XLRs to start a YOW route is getting a bit painful.

Thanks

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Doesn’t TS have a partnership with Easyjet in Gatwick? If so, that would be another great point on why TS should run it.

Both Transat and WestJet have a partnership with EasyJet. It really just means you can buy one ticket on the website and connections and bags are all done like other connections.

WestJet and EasyJet check and and customer service is on the lower level together at Gatwick. Everyone else is upstairs.

EasyJet has this relationship with many Low Cost and Leisure focused airlines.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 81, including 8 sun flights (including RSW that is missing from the departure FIDS again)

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 1

This could be the day that 80 is broken for the first time since March 2020. Will need to monitor later today for cancellations.

Doesn't look like the WS MCO departure is there either. 82?

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Doesn't look like the WS MCO departure is there either. 82?

Hmmm, it was there this morning but is now gone. In fact the number of flights showing up on the FIDS is now at 70, plus the cancellation, plus the AC ferry flight from earlier today that I didn’t count. The 0530 YYZ fell off the board given the time of day but others from before 0900 have also fallen off and not in order, including factoring delays. Strange!

Still looks good for 81 total today. After the last departure for the day, a tally of flightaware should confirm it.

At this point for the summer, the weekday average should be about 83 if my math’s correct:
-PD 37x: 1x each to YYT, MCO & YWG, 2x each to BOS, YYG, YQM, YFC, YQT, YEG, YYC & YVR, 3x each to YHZ & EWR, 4x to YYZ & 8x to YTZ
-AC 29x: 1x each to DCA, YQB & YYC, 2x to YHZ, 3x to YVR, 4x to YTZ, 7x to YUL & 10x to YYZ
-UA 8x (increasing to 9x sometime in August): 3x each to EWR & IAD, 2x to ORD (later 3x too)
-WS 6x: 1x each to YVR, YEG & YWG, YYC 3x (4x on two weekdays)
-AF + 5T + F8 3x combined: 1x each to CDG, YHZ & YFB (5T 2x daily ops X36 this summer)

[RomanR27]

AC has a daily YWG this summer as well, so 84 total and 30 for AC as it stands. I wonder if PD adds another route or two at some point, and if AC still may tweak some things too.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

AC has a daily YWG this summer as well, so 84 total and 30 for AC as it stands. I wonder if PD adds another route or two at some point, and if AC still may tweak some things too.

Thanks for catching that. I knew I was forgetting something for AC.

Looks like yesterday was in fact 81 as flightaware confirmed it.

Today’s departure count: 75, including 7 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

April's here and with it comes the noticeable drop in sun flight departures. Will further drop as the month goes on.

[RomanR27]

Today was the last F8 SFB departure of the season (potentially ever?)

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Thanks for catching that. I knew I was forgetting something for AC.

Looks like yesterday was in fact 81 as flightaware confirmed it.

Today’s departure count: 75, including 7 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

April's here and with it comes the noticeable drop in sun flight departures. Will further drop as the month goes on.

Ahh yes, but our daily MCO departure on Porter will ensure it never drops to zero.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Ahh yes, but our daily MCO departure on Porter will ensure it never drops to zero.

Yeah once it gets down to just PD to MCO for the summer as of the 2nd week of May, the count will again go on hiatus until the start of November.

[RomanR27]

Huh, AF328 diverted to YQB this afternoon.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Huh, AF328 diverted to YQB this afternoon.

Seems to be on it's way to YOW now...medical or unruly passenger maybe?