Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[s211]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I don't get why some people don't understand stairway etiquette. I was walking up the right side of the stairs going out of Burrard station the other day and some lady was going down that same side and acted like I was wrong

Was the person looking at their phone? If so, I can understand their effrontery, 10000%!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I don't get why some people don't understand stairway etiquette. I was walking up the right side of the stairs going out of Burrard station the other day and some lady was going down that same side and acted like I was wrong

She may have been expressing her independence.

[jollyburger]

You were part of a Tiktok video.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

You were part of a Tiktok video.

Probably

[Migrant_Coconut]

For the record, do we have actual, verifiable sources (reports, studies, news articles, even op-eds) for SkyTrain lines running an operational surplus? Can't find anything except blogs and Reddit comments, and TransLink kind of amalgamates all the numbers.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

For the record, do we have actual, verifiable sources (reports, studies, news articles, even op-eds) for SkyTrain lines running an operational surplus? Can't find anything except blogs and Reddit comments, and TransLink kind of amalgamates all the numbers.

I'm not sure these days anything that TransLink publish would clarify that. So many trips use multiple modes, and riders pay different amounts depending on how many zones they travel through, if they're on SkyTrain. If we still had 'tap out' on buses, I'm sure it would be possible to take every trip, the amount deducted from the Compass card on reaching the final destination of the trip, and allocate that fare proportionately to the distance travelled on the different parts of the system, across the different modes the rider used. Without that 'tap out' it's a much more guestimated calculation.

There was an early paper that said the 1987 operating cost per passenger on SkyTrain was $1.28. A one-zone cash fare was $1.15, so presumably even then with some riders taking a 2-zone trip the operating costs were being covered.

[jollyburger]

They used to publish some data trying to measure those costs but in the most recent report it seems like they dropped it? Cost per capacity-km, cost per boarding, cost per service car

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/translink/viz/2018TSPR-RailSummaries/TableofContents

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If we still had 'tap out' on buses, I'm sure it would be possible to take every trip, the amount deducted from the Compass card on reaching the final destination of the trip, and allocate that fare proportionately to the distance travelled on the different parts of the system, across the different modes the rider used.

If we had tap out on buses, then we could use that data to optimize bus routes. For example we could get rid of 51163, it only seems to serve the substation and also it's just a walk from the station and usually near the end of the line for every route that serves it

[Rico]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They used to publish some data trying to measure those costs but in the most recent report it seems like they dropped it? Cost per capacity-km, cost per boarding, cost per service car

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/translink/viz/2018TSPR-RailSummaries/TableofContents

If you have cost per boarding, average fare should give you a general idea. Obviously not perfect...but skytrain fares would skew higher than average so if average fare is higher than the cost per boarding it runs an operational profit...that said I doubt skytrain as a whole runs an operational profit. Expo line yes, the others not so much.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Changing City

There was an early paper that said the 1987 operating cost per passenger on SkyTrain was $1.28. A one-zone cash fare was $1.15, so presumably even then with some riders taking a 2-zone trip the operating costs were being covered.

Then you have to consider monthly pass, day pass, concession fare, discount fare, transfers. So if a passenger doing a Bus-SkyTrain-Bus trip using a 1-zone monthly pass outside of peak hours, then they only paid a few cents for the SkyTrain service.

But I believe the last time (in the early 2000s?) TransLink split the cost recovery for each mode, SkyTrain was reporting 109%. But I'm not sure how they determine how much revenue goes toward SkyTrain though, since this was before compass card and fare gate, there's no way they would know for sure...

Originally Posted by Rico

If you have cost per boarding, average fare should give you a general idea. Obviously not perfect...but skytrain fares would skew higher than average so if average fare is higher than the cost per boarding it runs an operational profit...that said I doubt skytrain as a whole runs an operational profit. Expo line yes, the others not so much.

There's no way Canada Line would run in profit before 2040 though, since they'll have to count the repayment to the private sector contribution for construction as an "operating cost".

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by nname

Then you have to consider monthly pass, day pass, concession fare, discount fare, transfers. So if a passenger doing a Bus-SkyTrain-Bus trip using a 1-zone monthly pass outside of peak hours, then they only paid a few cents for the SkyTrain service.

Don't forget fare evading transit theives!

Bear in mind, monthly passes don't save anyone much money. They're extremely hard to justify unless you use transit more than twice a day, every single day.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Bear in mind, monthly passes don't save anyone much money. They're extremely hard to justify unless you use transit more than twice a day, every single day.

i did the math on it once. and a 2-zone monthly pass would cost more than the 91 octane gas in my 1990s V8 car. and its not like i am getting rid of the car since i need it.

i just thought it was strange how the most expensive gas for my not-fuel-efficient-car was cheaper for the same time as a monthly pass. and then it would take me about 3x longer to get to work on-top of that.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i did the math on it once. and a 2-zone monthly pass would cost more than the 91 octane gas in my 1990s V8 car. and its not like i am getting rid of the car since i need it.

i just thought it was strange how the most expensive gas for my not-fuel-efficient-car was cheaper for the same time as a monthly pass. and then it would take me about 3x longer to get to work on-top of that.

It's okay the government will increase the tax on gas in the next few years to make it the same

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

For example we could get rid of 51163

I've used that bus stop a couple of times

[jollyburger]

Well they can already do some passenger tracking data using Automated Passenger Counters. Not sure how wide spread it is.. In 2015 it was installed on 20 per cent of the bus fleet.

[nname]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Don't forget fare evading transit theives!

Bear in mind, monthly passes don't save anyone much money. They're extremely hard to justify unless you use transit more than twice a day, every single day.

If you take transit to/from work everyday and take occasional weekend trip, then you definitely save money.

Typical month have 19-21 work days, so that's 38-42 trips. Break even for 1-zone pass is typically around 41.5 trip.

You save more for 2, 3 zone or WCE pass, if your trip requires it...

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Vantage

I've used that bus stop a couple of times

I have seen a few people get off on that stop, and one get on that stop

[Hotwax]

King George SkyTrain Station closing for six weeks

Starting Saturday, April 27, King George SkyTrain Station will be closed for approximately six weeks to complete essential maintenance work. During this time, there will be no SkyTrain service to or from King George Station. The Expo Line in Surrey will temporarily end at Surrey Central Station.

A full station closure is required to complete these important upgrades as efficiently and safely as possible. Some of the work will include removing parts of the rail to replace a turnout, a mechanical device that guides trains from one track to another. Over time, these components need replacement. This section of track has been in use since the station first opened 30 years ago.

Multiple infrastructure upgrades in and around King George Station are also scheduled; these include cable installations, elevator inspections, asset repairs, and station cleaning. The station is expected to reopen in mid-June.

Buses will continue serving King George Station during the closure, with some changes..

https://www.translink.ca/news/2024/march...%20station%20closing%20for%20six%20weeks

[Mac Write]

That was completely un-expected. I would have hoped they would have added 2 more escalators and 2 more elevators, so their is always a working elevator and down escalators.

[Mac Write]

What switches will they uses to reverse the trains? Gateway and then single track? or use both gateway switches to double single track and use both platforms. I assume they won't be using the King Goerge station switch as that's in the zone they are working on.