Winnipeg | Portage and Main

[OTA in Winnipeg]

It would be brilliant if there were some way for the P&M transit station to run under there. Likely a pipe dream but that would certainly revive the whole place. And completely change its purpose.

One wonders how the UK underground has done so well and NOT require a complete multi-million dollar rebuild every 40 years.

[Phil's neighbour]

It would be a crime to abandon the underground. It serves as a busy hub to the system of overpass spokes downtown. Lots of ordinary folks use it, not just the suits and ties in the towers. Having the option to go above or below would be ideal.
There are some monster sewer pipes down there that forced the dips in the walkway. There is no way they’d be moved for a transit hub.
As for rehab costs every 40 years, this is something that could be budgeted. Half the cost going to the four corners and paid into a fund annually would mean a $125,000 contribution per corner every year, minus accrued interest. Possibly spread around the business beneficiaries in an improvement zone or some such. This wouldn’t be an unmanageable expense.
And this could also be an opportunity to extend the underground to the Harvard lot on Main, assuming they’re still interested in developing it.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Phil's neighbour

It would be a crime to abandon the underground. It serves as a busy hub to the system of overpass spokes downtown. Lots of ordinary folks use it, not just the suits and ties in the towers. Having the option to go above or below would be ideal.
There are some monster sewer pipes down there that forced the dips in the walkway. There is no way they’d be moved for a transit hub.
As for rehab costs every 40 years, this is something that could be budgeted. Half the cost going to the four corners and paid into a fund annually would mean a $125,000 contribution per corner every year, minus accrued interest. Possibly spread around the business beneficiaries in an improvement zone or some such. This wouldn’t be an unmanageable expense.
And this could also be an opportunity to extend the underground to the Harvard lot on Main, assuming they’re still interested in developing it.

I wonder if skywalks could work instead of underground and then have a transit station above grade? Expensive, yes but not without precedent.

[Hecate]

Why do people keep bringing up skywalks?

Why would we spend tens of millions shutting down a perfectly good tunnel, to then go ahead and spend tens of millions building skywalks across portage and main.

Now I’m not against skywalks they are fine on side streets and across back lanes. But they should not be destroying sight lines along our greatest avenues. Just imagine a ring of ugly ass skywalks at portage and main. How bad would that look. Closing off even more sky from the dark windy corner. I shudder in disgust at the thought of it.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Why do people keep bringing up skywalks?

Why would we spend tens of millions shutting down a perfectly good tunnel, to then go ahead and spend tens of millions building skywalks across portage and main.

Now I’m not against skywalks they are fine on side streets and across back lanes. But they should not be destroying sight lines along our greatest avenues. Just imagine a ring of ugly ass skywalks at portage and main. How bad would that look. Closing off even more sky from the dark windy corner. I shudder in disgust at the thought of it.

I agree.

Might be better off without it, and perhaps have all the property owners involved at the intersection to pitch in and keep it open.

Damn. This is never going to be an easy solution. We really did dug ourselves into a hole here.

No pun intended.

[Rutlander]

I agree that having skywalks at this intersection would spoil it rather than enhance. I think having the pedestrian street level crossing in addition to an underground concourse would be the best option, but I wonder about the issue of the waterproofing of the concourse: is there something that can be used today that wasn't available when it was built that would give it a longer lifespan?

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Phil's neighbour

Lots of ordinary folks use it, not just the suits and ties in the towers.

I agree, but I think it would be impossible to expect any of the P & M businesses to ante up to keep the concourse open without the suits and ties wanting that convenience.

Even with some of their people using it, I kind of doubt we'll see any of them volunteering a few extra $$ (or millions of $$) to keep the concourse open, but I could be wrong.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Why do people keep bringing up skywalks?

Why would we spend tens of millions shutting down a perfectly good tunnel, to then go ahead and spend tens of millions building skywalks across portage and main.

Now I’m not against skywalks they are fine on side streets and across back lanes. But they should not be destroying sight lines along our greatest avenues. Just imagine a ring of ugly ass skywalks at portage and main. How bad would that look. Closing off even more sky from the dark windy corner. I shudder in disgust at the thought of it.

Thank you. I agree 100%. Open the intersection and repair the Concourse. I'm sure a city this size can find the money. The Concourse is needed given the climate and also as it is an asset to the current and future residential development in the Exchange as well as near to Portage and Main itself. The city certainly seems to find the money for suburban road extensions. I'm not opposed to those types of infrastructure investments per se,, I think the CPT extension is needed for example, but Winnipeg should not be funding new infrastructure where the rationale and results are only to encourage additional sprawl. The city is already too big for its population.

Downtown needs to be priority number one. More than 2 in 5 NHL players didn't say Winnipeg is the worst city to play in because they didn't like the shopping malls or Bird's Hill Park. Cities are defined by their downtowns and their wider central cities. People do not go to New York to visit Levittown and they don't go to New Orleans to see Metairie.

[pspeid]

I hope people don't get blocked by a pay wall for this. I wasn't

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2024/03/20/u-turn-on-portage-and-main

[Authentic_City]

^That Free Press article says Portage and Main is currently the sixth busiest intersection in Winnipeg. And it's down since pre-pandemic times.

Does anyone know what the top 5 are? I would like to see the numbers.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

^That Free Press article says Portage and Main is currently the sixth busiest intersection in Winnipeg. And it's down since pre-pandemic times.

Does anyone know what the top 5 are? I would like to see the numbers.

I think I saw somewhere Regent and Lag is 1 or 2.

[Authentic_City]

In 2018, it was

1) Regent and Lag
2) Portage and Morary
3) Portage and Main
4) Waverley and Bishop
5) Kenaston and Sterling Lyon
6) Century and Ness

I'm guess these moved up, and Portage and Main moved down to 6?

[pegster]

Council has voted 11-3 to reopen P&M to pedestrians next year and close the concourse: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki...-pedestrians-close-underground-concourse

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by pegster

Council has voted 11-3 to reopen P&M to pedestrians next year and close the concourse: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki...-pedestrians-close-underground-concourse

Closing is still TBD, it was never studied and they have no idea what it will cost nor consulted with any of the property owners, the closing aspect could change once there is "more information" in the future, but good news on the opening at grade.

An early estimate suggests it would cost up to $50 million to close the concourse, though the council motion calls on city staff to complete a more thorough assessment and plan before the 2025 budget process.

[thebasketballgeek]

Well it’s been almost 50 years but finally the city has made the right decision. I hope when I visit 2025-onwards or move back to the city I will finally be able to cross that damn intersection by foot.

Cheers everyone in celebration of a monumental victory for Downtown Winnipeg and providing a future that’s more walkable and accessible for all people!

[trueviking]

Browaty voted for it. Holy cow.

[Kris22]

Finally. This whole open it/close it debate/debacle was so painful to live through and I honestly thought it would be dragged out for another decade. Let's sleep easy tonight! haha

[Labroco]

Very pleased there is now political will to open P&M. The sooner this can move forward and be actualized the better! Once everyone sees these cross walks blend into our urban fabric and add some vitality without traffic disruption, this issue will disappear.

I also believe the discussion of closing the underground is far from over. The City had an obligation to set aside funds for these infrastructure maintenance issues and failed to do so. The adjacent owners have paid substantial taxes for over 40 years to also ensure infrastructure they rely on is maintained. There will be a quiet “full court press” to find a way for the access to be maintained. The owners have already paid for this maintenance and now will expect it to be dealt with. It’s not their exclusive responsibility to fund these differed maintenance issues again.

I really believe people will attempt to remain quiet on this issue until the crosswalks are in place.

I’m betting on crosswalks with the underground maintained…

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Browaty voted for it. Holy cow.

Never thought I'd see the day either. Holy moly.

Good news all around.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Labroco

Very pleased there is now political will to open P&M. The sooner this can move forward and be actualized the better! Once everyone sees these cross walks blend into our urban fabric and add some vitality without traffic disruption, this issue will disappear.

I also believe the discussion of closing the underground is far from over. The City had an obligation to set aside funds for these infrastructure maintenance issues and failed to do so. The adjacent owners have paid substantial taxes for over 40 years to also ensure infrastructure they rely on is maintained. There will be a quiet “full court press” to find a way for the access to be maintained. The owners have already paid for this maintenance and now will expect it to be dealt with. It’s not their exclusive responsibility to fund these differed maintenance issues again.

I really believe people will attempt to remain quiet on this issue until the crosswalks are in place.

I’m betting on crosswalks with the underground maintained…

No way the underground closes. It’s all about leverage. With the barricades up the city is completely responsible for paying to maintain the underground. The property owners benefit but we pay for it. Let people cross at grade and threaten to close the underground and suddenly all the leverage flips from the property owners to the city. They have ten years before it’s a real issue. Its all a play. Open it up and then turn to the property owners and say we are closing the underground and you will be cut off from the skywalk system. if you want to keep the underground open, let’s talk about how much it’s worth to you. It’s a genius plan.