Atlanta Beltline

[shivtim]

Southern Poverty Law Center to build new headquarters at 871 Wheeler St on the Westside Beltline Connector.
via Urbanize Atlanta

[Sojourner_Terminus]

Hoping they're ready to spend the money to make something high quality and high density. Some public space could be cool too.

[Metrophile]

[smArTaLlone]

Northeast Trail – Segment 1: trail concrete has been poured on the first phase of work within Piedmont Park


Southside Trail – Segments 4+5:. A new pedestrian bridge is being constructed adjacent to the historic Ormewood bridge.
+

Westside Trail – Segment 4: first elevated trail section in preparation for a concrete pour. View looking towards Washington Park.

https://beltline.org/2023/12/26/atlanta-beltline-design-and-construction-updates-december-2023/

[smArTaLlone]

Atlanta BeltLine, Inc. is seeking a construction firm to build Northwest Trail – Segment 5. An Invitation to Bid is now open for the trail project, totaling 0.8 miles, which will extend from the intersection of Marietta Boulevard and Huff Road to the intersection of Culpepper and English Street. This segment will tie into a planned regional trail connection to the Silver Comet Trail and the Chattahoochee River.

The Northwest Trail, spanning the northern arc of the BeltLine, totaling 4.4 miles upon completion, will connect the completed Westside Trail – Segment 3, and extend east to the future northernmost segment of the Northeast Trail.

[shivtim]

Turns out the group against Beltline rail is associated with oil/car money. Can't say I'm surprised. Via AlexIp on twitter:

Day-to-day ops of the anti-transit group is run by lobbyist Billy Linville who represented:
Blackstone, 30th largest global CO2 emitter;
Delta, 2nd largest global airline;
Tesla, only non-unionized major US automaker;
Racetrac, gas station chain.

[Julien]

Ansley Mall Beltline bridge is about complete but not yet open. May need to add some fencing so you don't walk off the edge. Seems they could have made it a straight shot but.......Ansley Mall needs to start on the restaurant locations it is going to build on the back.

[Julien]

While I'm all for the Streetcar there is one thing that has always stuck in my head. Streetcars should be about NEEDING to go from point A to Point B. The Beltline is about recreation and not many people are "I live on point A and work/shop at point B" on the Beltline.

Is the point to bring tourist form Centennial Park over to the Beltline to gawk? Streetcars already serve little to no ATL citizens purpose.

Seems it would be more productive to try and put Streetcars in Midtown and Westside/GA Tech. Also this should have been included in the Cap.

I know there is a 500 year plan to do that but.

[Username123]

Originally Posted by Julien

The Beltline is about recreation and not many people are "I live on point A and work/shop at point B" on the Beltline.

I’d love to see some numbers on this.

[shivtim]

The eastside Beltline has a high concentration of jobs, housing, and destinations. How many people are employed at Ponce City Market alone? It's really a perfect candidate for transit since the right-of-way is already there.

[RocketSurgeon]

Insufferable negativity incoming

MARTA doesn't even get good ridership in Buckhead/Midtown/Downtown anymore. It's still half of what it was in the 2010s.

Anything on the Beltline would be a boondoggle IMO. There isn't enough density or connectivity to justify it. It would only link to the streetcar, which serves an area that apparently can't even support a Walgreens. How many people are going to spend over an hour looping around Downtown and changing trains 3 times just to go to PCM, when they can drive or use a rideshare in minutes?

Even if it made any sense, with the way things have gone in recent decades, best case we could hope for is 20 years of studies followed by a 1-2 mile stretch with a 30 minute headway.

Rail is dead in this city, unfortunately. Has been for a generation. I'd rather they fix the bus system or at least focus on projects that would truly expand the existing system, like a Westside-Midtown-Eastside subway line (which will obviously never happen but one can dream )

[lux]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Insufferable negativity incoming

MARTA doesn't even get good ridership in Buckhead/Midtown/Downtown anymore. It's still half of what it was in the 2010s.

Anything on the Beltline would be a boondoggle IMO. There isn't enough density or connectivity to justify it. It would only link to the streetcar, which serves an area that apparently can't even support a Walgreens. How many people are going to spend over an hour looping around Downtown and changing trains 3 times just to go to PCM, when they can drive or use a rideshare in minutes?

Even if it made any sense, with the way things have gone in recent decades, best case we could hope for is 20 years of studies followed by a 1-2 mile stretch with a 30 minute headway.

Rail is dead in this city, unfortunately. Has been for a generation. I'd rather they fix the bus system or at least focus on projects that would truly expand the existing system, like a Westside-Midtown-Eastside subway line (which will obviously never happen but one can dream )

Here is why you are wrong:

The Beltline rail plan is funded and almost beyond the design stage, it's essentially shovel-ready and slated to start construction next year.

MARTA ridership suffered from COVID and is still recovering - that is true but it is not an argument against rail. The population has only increased since then and is set to increase a lot more.

"Anything on the Beltline would be a boondoggle [...] There isn't enough density or connectivity to justify it. It would only link to the streetcar, which serves an area that apparently can't even support a Walgreens. How many people are going to spend over an hour looping around Downtown and changing trains 3 times just to go to PCM, when they can drive or use a rideshare in minutes?"
The idea that you can just not invest in transit when your population is increasing and densifying is a boondoggle. Population-wise, the Beltline is one of the densest stretches of land in Atlanta and getting denser (and expanding). Downtown can support huge hotels, offices, and entertainment destinations. Connecting the two is a no-brainer. Furthermore, the idea is to create the first leg of a future line that will create a full loop along the Beltline - so you need to think beyond the next 4 years. And to answer your question - because they don't want to or can't own a car and should not be forced to.

If rail is dead in this city, then how come I went to the office and came home in full trains both ways?

You are right. a Westside-Midtown-Eastside subway line will never happen. But you know what might (and is part of the Beltline's master plan)? A Westside-Midtown-Eastside Streetcar.

[RocketSurgeon]

MARTA ridership isn't recovering--2023 was the same or worse vs 2022. Similar nationwide.

The idea that you can just not invest in transit when your population is increasing and densifying is a boondoggle

On that we agree, but investment should go toward projects people will actually use, or else it's a waste that will only turn people off of transit even more.

I don't expect Beltline rail to happen this decade--Clifton corridor all over again. Not much of a loss to our transit system if you ask me, except the untold millions spent on even more useless studies.

I'm pro transit personally but that isn't a view most people share, and frankly I think a lot of you are in an abusive relationship with MARTA--they're always promising, never delivering. If you think I'm just being a cynic, remember that Bill Clinton was president the last time they actually built something

[cabasse]

marta ridership is still down from pre-covid levels, but comparing Q3/2022 to Q3/2023, ridership is up about 5%. (from 195k weekday trips to to 203k)

WFH is probably a big part of that, but there are still some office jobs, lots of new residential units going up in midtown and two big colleges (GSU/GT) right on top of marta.



THIS is a nifty tool

[ArchKid]

Look these videos：Kaohsiung Light Rail Circular Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZVLA-wikGU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFXTLS_Yg9M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DdFKCsXEx4

Kaohsiung Light Rail Circular Line is also a commuter loop. It's like the Beltline streetcar. So maybe Atlanta needs to build this streetcar system in the future......

[ArchKid]

Kaohsiung Light Rail Circular Line route map：As shown by the green line，it is a closed loop.
http://alumy.yusor.com/LRRT.htm

[ArchKid]

Kaohsiung Light Rail Circular Line uses streetcars without overhead wires(CAF Urbos 3).So no need to cut down the trees！
When the train drives through the trees, it looks like a scene from Hayao Miyazaki's My Neighbor Totoro Tunnel.
https://udn.com/news/story/6967/7782896
https://www.instagram.com/ghiblilog/p/Cb9qvRFAxuN/

Look this video:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QFMTEP_dvao

[newuserbuckhead]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Turns out the group against Beltline rail is associated with oil/car money. Can't say I'm surprised. Via AlexIp on twitter:

Day-to-day ops of the anti-transit group is run by lobbyist Billy Linville who represented:
Blackstone, 30th largest global CO2 emitter;
Delta, 2nd largest global airline;
Tesla, only non-unionized major US automaker;
Racetrac, gas station chain.

1. His name was included in the original story back in October, so this isn't some new piece of information twitter dug up.
2. It's like they went to his bio on his company page and just picked clients that fit the narrative he wanted. He's a professional public affairs and PR guy, of course he's worked with big companies.
3. He's also worked with Invest Atlanta and CIM. I can't imagine either of those are hostel to transit.
4. He's heavily involved in Democratic politics. They tend to be pro transit and everything the Beltline stands for.

I don't know the guy or anything about him other than a quick Google search, but I can't help but think ya'll are grasping at straws here. This is likely just a job for him, not some sort of conspiracy involving all of these other players. Besides, what does Delta gain from stopping rail on the BL?

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

MARTA ridership isn't recovering--2023 was the same or worse vs 2022. Similar nationwide.

As Cabasse showed, this is simply not true. You can look up all the data here. Total MARTA ridership (including heavy rail, bus, streetcar, and paratransit) grew by 13.49% from 2022 to 2023. And similar trends are seen nationwide, with a 16.07% increase.

[bryantm3]

Let's be real here: the function of the streetcar, as planned, is for tourism/leisure and to attract more people to the beltline. It's not for commuters. I hope that with WFH and other innovations, commuting won't be as neccessary for many people— maybe building transit for leisure and something to do on the weekend is a better investment.

Imagine one that goes from Avondale to Stone Mountain and Conyers, or one that goes to six flags. It seems like it would be a more pleasant experience than having to ride a train down the interstate. We do need transit solutions for people getting across town but maybe the pro-BRT people are right about that being more cost effective. Save the train $$$ for rides that people will actually enjoy.