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  #1161  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2023, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
As I understand it, a large part of South London is ground moraine, which is a mix of clay and sand - as well as terminal moraine, which is more stony (and is where the old Byron gravel pits were dug).
That’s what till is. It’s predominantly highly compacted clay or silt with bits of coarser material like stones mixed in.
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  #1162  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2024, 5:58 PM
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This is London road planning in a nutshell.


https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2298750531864
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  #1163  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2024, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jammer139 View Post
This is London road planning in a nutshell.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2298750531864

You do understand the difference between planning, design, and construction - or is your commentary based on the report of the expert journalist in the attached link?

The linked article & video from the expert journalist whose deep investigation on the topic is in total to talk to a resident who had made a video from her balcony showing several cars being damaged by mounting a road median, then talk to a couple of angry local merchants, and email a City representative. His personal journalistic expertise on such subject matter is "a passion for politics, photography and baseball".

What happened is that the reconstruction of the road at this intersection finished up for the season recently. There was an oversight when suspending work at the location by not placing a temporary traffic delineator or semi-permanent keep-to-the-right island sign to warn traffic of a new median. Because of poor visibility for motorists in bad weather coupled with lack of signage, the new median was struck by a number of vehicles. No one hurt, but some cars were damaged. Clearly this is a bad thing and should not have happened, but as soon as the City rectified the situation by placing proper delineators and signage at the location, the problem seems to have gone away. End of story. Marginally newsworthy story at best in a city of half a million.

Well not exactly: since there really isn't the grand scandal here, but rather a single incidence of straightforward sloppy work on the part of either the contractor and/or City rep for the project (and this happens from time to time on construction sites anywhere), the journalist’s narrative changes to the BRT project (that this intersection work is a part of) being bad. The narrative shifts to the BRT being the cause of all sorts of pain to merchants, and the article title is framed as the BRT project causing traffic accidents and killing business. Wait. I thought this was about motorists striking a new road median because it was difficult to see and poorly signed?

This misleading and sloppy journalism was written by someone who knows next to nothing on the subject matter - and was possibly feeling urgency to produce material to fill column inches. Additionally, there is video available of cars being in accidents – gotta use that somehow!

It is very true that there was a small, but very important oversight by either the construction contractor or City's inspector - resulting in damage to a number vehicles. The City or contractor will almost certainly have to pay for the damages, and people affected will be put out by the significant inconvenience.

It however has absolutely nothing to do with terrible "road planning".

Last edited by Snark; Jan 13, 2024 at 1:08 AM.
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  #1164  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2024, 9:34 PM
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City committee approves tenders for 2024 phase of the BRT work. Up next is full council approval.



https://london.ctvnews.ca/civic-works-co...ontracts-for-next-3-brt-phases-1.6748609
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  #1165  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2024, 3:17 AM
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Phases 3 and 4 of the Wellington Gateway RT project will also start this year. This is in addition to the Thames River bridge widening, which will start in the spring.

This section includes Wellington between Wilkins St and Greenfield Dr (which is north of Exeter Rd). Construction will start in summer 2024 and finish in 2025.

A presentation will be posted on the project website on Feb 14.

https://getinvolved.london.ca/wellingtongateway



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  #1166  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2024, 5:36 PM
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Here are some RT updates

Construction on the Highbury section of the the third phase of the East London Link will start next week. This includes Highbury from north of the overpass to just north of Oxford, including the intersection at Oxford. A pre-construction webinar will be held on Wed Feb 21 - https://us16.campaign-archive.com/?u=c5d2ca39d44050151a3817804&id=a34504cf95


As I mentioned in my previous post, construction on the next phases of the Wellington Gateway will start later this year.

Here are some renderings. We start at Wilkins Street, and head south along Wellington















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  #1167  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2024, 11:19 PM
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About what was expected of that stretch of Wellington. I can imagine there'll be some business squawking about the median and customers have to use lefts at the next intersection for U turns, even though it's been planned for ages.

Seems like they missed putting a future U left turn lane at Wilkins. When they continue the project further north, as that stretch from Commissioners to Southdale southbound won't have a U turn lane the whole way. Find the staging of Wellington to be odd think they would continue to build south from the Thames , instead they skipped the Commissioners to Thames stretch for last even though it's the one that will provide the biggest improvement.
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  #1168  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2024, 2:19 AM
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Shoutout to whoever did, or came up with, the logos showing on those pictures. It was so much easier to read and place the roads in relation to the construction... I mean, seriously, ty to that person
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  #1169  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2024, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac View Post
About what was expected of that stretch of Wellington. I can imagine there'll be some business squawking about the median and customers have to use lefts at the next intersection for U turns, even though it's been planned for ages.
I wish London had more center medians, so people would stop making left hand turns in stupid spots.
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  #1170  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2024, 4:24 AM
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I wish London had more center medians, so people would stop making left hand turns in stupid spots.
lol, ever drive down Commissioners by Old Victoria? https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.9624838,-81.1449715,401m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

anyways, the people that live there, who from my buddy who lives close by has said he has met many of people that live there, from the south GTA area, have bought in there, and yea, guess that driving style here. they don't give a shit and do u's all the time traffic or not.
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  #1171  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 4:53 PM
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  #1172  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 11:05 PM
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I still think it's a big mistake not using Oxford for the East Leg.

But maybe in the future they can use Oxford for an LRT expansion instead.
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  #1173  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 1:09 PM
inimrepus inimrepus is offline
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The problem with using Oxford instead is that there isn't much along there. It is almost entirely low density housing. Going along Dundas there are tons of businesses and higher density housing full of people that will use rapid transit.
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  #1174  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 3:56 PM
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The problem with using Oxford instead is that there isn't much along there. It is almost entirely low density housing. Going along Dundas there are tons of businesses and higher density housing full of people that will use rapid transit.
I would disagree that there is not a lot of density, especially around Oxford/Wonderland. But even if we disagree on that, building a truly rapid LRT line will spur development close to the transit line.
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  #1175  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 4:10 PM
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I would disagree that there is not a lot of density, especially around Oxford/Wonderland. But even if we disagree on that, building a truly rapid LRT line will spur development close to the transit line.
Not to mention there's also Cherryhill, and the north side of Oxford between there and Proudfoot is zoned for high density.
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  #1176  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
Not to mention there's also Cherryhill, and the north side of Oxford between there and Proudfoot is zoned for high density.
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Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
I would disagree that there is not a lot of density, especially around Oxford/Wonderland. But even if we disagree on that, building a truly rapid LRT line will spur development close to the transit line.
But I was replying to somebody talking about using Oxford for the East leg of BRT. Both of you are talking about areas in the West end of the city that isn't getting BRT. If we were getting BRT in the West end of the city then I would agree that the West leg should use Oxford, but not for the East leg.

As for saying that building an LRT line would spur development, it absolutely would. We aren't getting an LRT line right now though. Beyond that, we already have development happening along the roads where they are building the East leg, why shouldn't we be building rapid transit for areas that are already getting higher density developments?
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  #1177  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 8:02 PM
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As for the eventual western/northern routes, they too will be BRT. LRT will NEVER happen for three reasons:

1} It would require tearing up the entire Downtown Loop and starting again which would be the final nail in the coffin for the Core.
2} It would require a new LRT garage/maintenance centre along either Oxford or Richmond where there is absolutely no industrial lands and hence would have to be right beside housing in the wealthiest parts of the city.......good luck with that.
3} It would be reek of elitism as the poorer areas of the city would get BRT while the rich west gets LRT.
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  #1178  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 10:34 PM
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As for the eventual western/northern routes, they too will be BRT. LRT will NEVER happen for three reasons:

1} It would require tearing up the entire Downtown Loop and starting again which would be the final nail in the coffin for the Core.
2} It would require a new LRT garage/maintenance centre along either Oxford or Richmond where there is absolutely no industrial lands and hence would have to be right beside housing in the wealthiest parts of the city.......good luck with that.
3} It would be reek of elitism as the poorer areas of the city would get BRT while the rich west gets LRT.
I would think that a more likely scenario for rapid transit improvements going into a future is an improvement in the vehicles, as opposed to a change in transport mode. Yes, the die is cast, and London will not be switching over to LRT from BRT for a very long time - if ever. There are some hopeful possibilities for BRT in mid-term future however: if developments in EV's continue at the current pace, there could be rapid transit "buses" in the future that, from a user's perspective and experience, would be very similar to an LRT vehicle except without the rails and catenary wires, and not as physically long.

User experience is a key factor in the public's current perception of the difference between BRT and LRT. LRT is (rightly or wrongly) viewed as modern, clean, progressive, urbane, sophisticated, etc. It is perceived to be perhaps something many middle class folks would happily consider as a desirable mode of transportation. Perhaps something that people who could afford vehicle ownership would eschew that because LRT is perceived as a competitive alternative. Being seen riding it might even be “cool”.

BRT on the other hand currently is very frequently viewed by many as just more of the same old city bus system except with some dedicated lanes. The long-standing stigma concerning bus transit remains: perceptions about city buses being dirty worn out old vehicles, possibly having undesirable passengers to the point of feeling unsafe, and being an outdated dinosaur of transport that perhaps your grandparents may have used. The user experience is often perceived as being at best indifferent to downright unpleasant. City buses are perceived (again rightly or wrongly) by much of the population (mostly meaning the proportion of the population who currently don't use city buses) as a mode of transportation used by those, that for whatever reason, can't afford to own and operate a personal vehicle and/or can't hold a driver's licence. It's a mode of transportation of last resort (if one discounts bikes). Currently, it's typically not something many middle class folks would happily consider as a sought-after mode of transportation. It would be rare to be viewed as something that people who could afford vehicle ownership would eschew that because city buses are perceived as a competitive alternative. Being seen riding it is perceived as not fashionable.

So, the current London BRT system will start operating with 2 strikes against it: (1) the route network when completed will be grossly incomplete and inadequate in terms of the design of the network being constructed and lack of city coverage - to the point of being unusable for much of the population. (2)The public’s general perception of city buses as outlined above. However, if the BRT vehicles of the future were to be clean and quiet EV's that looked and felt like a modern vehicle and provided that user perception of a modern, clean, progressive, urbane, sophisticated way of travel, then those traditional perceptions of city buses (and by extrapolation BRT) could change dramatically. With that change in public attitude, perhaps there would be a political desire to complete the construction of the BRT route network as it was originally envisioned (or similar), and the system then be used by much more of the population as was originally envisioned. Ironically, completing the network is more attractive in some ways because constructing and maintaining a given length of BRT route is considerably lower in cost that the same for LRT.
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  #1179  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 1:23 PM
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Yeah BRT is just fancy bus service, but if it delivers on the actual 'rapid' part as a frequent, efficient and reliable method of getting places it will get one of those strikes erased.

Problem is the network as built won't really be going places as you mentioned. It will be great if you're Fanshawe student who needs to get to campus from downtown, which may make some Western students jealous.

One day LRT could run down Oxford. It has a pretty wide right of way from Richmond to Adelaide. Approaching Wharncliffe it could follow the CP route a bit on it's journey to Western Road perhaps, avoiding the Wharncliffe and Oxford intersection, rejoining at the curve where Wharncliffe becomes Western Road.

It could also continue along the CP right of way and have stations at Patt's Lane, Wonderland/Sarina and even Hyde Park.

Waterloo Region runs some of their LRT along rail corridors so why can't London do the same? If BRT, routing it on Oxford would make more sense vs a busway.

...But for now this is all a pipe dream once again. We decided where the network will go and where it won't for this generation.
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  #1180  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 4:10 PM
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It will definitely be decades before any of London's BRT gets converted to LRT (if ever), but it can happen. Ottawa's version of BRT, the Transitway, opened in 1983 when Ottawa had a similar population to London today. Now 40 years later they have an LRT, though it has been plagued with problems.
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