Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[Myst]

We’ve got 9 nonstop routes to the US. That’s more than we’ve ever had. 4 of those have been added over about 18 months, including 2 never offered before. Transborder traffic wasn’t yet recovered in 2023, but should be by this summer. I think we’ll mainly see aircraft types and frequencies filled in, maybe a couple of seasonal weekly leisure routes, to be the developments for the next year or two. Times are already good.

I don’t think Transat would be eager to get back into western markets, but that would be an interesting idea. Or for Porter to try some weekend winter leisure flights.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I can barely fly Winnipeg-Edmonton direct with WestJet without going through Calgary or Saskatoon. Yes there are direct flights, but most options send you through another location. That speaks to the level of service or commitment to the Winnipeg market.

Service to Edmonton really tanked when AC pulled out. When I lived in Edmonton, there were around 4-6 daily flights between YEG and YWG. I know AC has retrenched from the west, but I could see AC re-establish this route between two major Canadian cities. At the very least WS could add more daily frequencies because they will be needed very soon. Who knows, maybe another carrier altogether could step in to help fill this void........cough cough PD cough cough haha

[Myst]

Historically speaking (IIRC), circa late ‘90’s AC was flying 2x daily on YEG-YWG. CP didn’t offer nonstop. And WS did a YWG-YXE-YEG-YVR milk run. Eventually adding nonstop.

Looking at a day in August, I see 3x nonstop on WS. But looking at a day in March, I see 1x WS nonstop.

WS seems very cost focused. They have efficient airplanes to do that. But they don’t have enough fleet flexibility. It’s fine to have extra summer flights. But basic service is important, and a little schedule flexibility is not able to be offered if they are running in 180 seat increments. That’s a problem for YEG-YWG. Same issue for YWG-LAX not being daily. And most other carriers would only offer YWG-LAX, fly it daily, and not offer YWG-PSP. WS is likely cheaper to operate into PSP, but that doesn’t mean better service overall.

[Myst]

Statistics for US flights from YWG in November (source is US government statistics)

Route - Seats flown - Passengers carried - Load factor
YWG-ATL - 3492 - 2883 - 82.6%
ATL-YWG - 3492 - 2771 - 79.4%
YWG-LAS - 1218 - 1015 - 83.3%
LAS-YWG - 1218 - 1001 - 82.2%
YWG-LAX - 2052 - 1782 - 86.8%
LAX-YWG - 2052 - 1734 - 84.5%
YWG-MCO - 1962 - 1780 - 90.7%
MCO-YWG - 1962 - 1502 - 76.6%
YWG-MSP - 7625 - 6563 - 86.1%
MSP-YWG - 7600 - 6234 - 82.0%
YWG-PHX - 2178 - 1844 - 84.7%
PHX-YWG - 2178 - 1645 - 75.5%
YWG-PSP - 792 - 624 - 78.8%
PSP-YWG - 792 - 646 - 81.6%

It is normal for northbound numbers to be lower for sunspots at the start of the season. Overall they look good. But something to keep in mind - it’s not just about load factor - it’s also about ‘yield’ (revenue generated). When really cheap seats are available, that is an indicator. So that ATL deal - snap those seats up, by all means - but seats always being expensive is also an indicator of route performance.

[Justanothermember]

I get your theory, however I don't think it holds truth for all situations.

I've just done a comparison for LAX and ATL flights from YWG, YYC and YVR. In a very quick scan of pricing over the next five months, both YVR and YYC are offering cheaper fares than YWG. Does this automatically mean they are doing worse than us? I don't believe so. There could be other factors at play like airport fees and such. So I don't really take pricing as much of an indicator of anything.

Regardless, I try not to be a negative person. I don't sit awake at night worrying about every little thing regarding our airport or performance. I don't sit around scrutinising the numbers because I don't have the time or care for it. I'm a booster of the airport and want it to perform as best as it can, giving Winnipeggers multiple options for travel. I want the best for the city, without needing to explain any further. Full stop.

[Myst]

LOL.

Do I worry about that? No. I am interested in discussing potential of new routes to come - and to stay. That means a little discussion of why airlines make the decisions they do. That has to include talking about yield management.

Airport fees are fixed - they do not vary with fares.

The average consumer sees a $69 fare to YYZ and thinks that’s what it costs to fly. If you look at airline annual reports, you’ll find something like 17 to 25 cents per seat mile. For a 75% break even load, that means a fare of at least $211 each way. Below that is a loss leader. There will probably always be a few seats sold like that to fill the plane.

Incidentally, a willingness to fly some empty seats is something carriers will do to support winning higher fare passengers. Seeing full daily ATL and LAX is both something I’d like to see both to support business and connectivity, but also as an indicator that WS has that willingness.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

I get your theory, however I don't think it holds truth for all situations.

I've just done a comparison for LAX and ATL flights from YWG, YYC and YVR. In a very quick scan of pricing over the next five months, both YVR and YYC are offering cheaper fares than YWG. Does this automatically mean they are doing worse than us? I don't believe so. There could be other factors at play like airport fees and such. So I don't really take pricing as much of an indicator of anything.

Regardless, I try not to be a negative person. I don't sit awake at night worrying about every little thing regarding our airport or performance. I don't sit around scrutinising the numbers because I don't have the time or care for it. I'm a booster of the airport and want it to perform as best as it can, giving Winnipeggers multiple options for travel. I want the best for the city, without needing to explain any further. Full stop.

Shorter flights are cheaper? News at 11.

Really its multiple reasons.
-First, shorter flights from YYC/YVR to LAX
-Competition, Both YYC/YVR have multiple carriers (either 3 or 4 each depending on time of year)
-People will pay more for non stop, carriers can charge more with no competition.
-People willing to pay

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Shorter flights are cheaper? News at 11.

Really its multiple reasons.
-First, shorter flights from YYC/YVR to LAX
-Competition, Both YYC/YVR have multiple carriers (either 3 or 4 each depending on time of year)
-People will pay more for non stop, carriers can charge more with no competition.
-People willing to pay

I would add that both YVR/YYC have more business travellers and those paying premium fares, therefore the lower "back of the bus" fares will be covered by those sitting up front.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Myst

Historically speaking (IIRC), circa late ‘90’s AC was flying 2x daily on YEG-YWG. CP didn’t offer nonstop. And WS did a YWG-YXE-YEG-YVR milk run. Eventually adding nonstop.

Looking at a day in August, I see 3x nonstop on WS. But looking at a day in March, I see 1x WS nonstop.

WS seems very cost focused. They have efficient airplanes to do that. But they don’t have enough fleet flexibility. It’s fine to have extra summer flights. But basic service is important, and a little schedule flexibility is not able to be offered if they are running in 180 seat increments. That’s a problem for YEG-YWG. Same issue for YWG-LAX not being daily. And most other carriers would only offer YWG-LAX, fly it daily, and not offer YWG-PSP. WS is likely cheaper to operate into PSP, but that doesn’t mean better service overall.

Westjet does 1-2 dailies to Edmonton in the winter and 3-4 in the summer. Summer you also have Flair 2-4 times a week. That market is fairly well served.

For WestJet, there domestic its only Montreal that is missing - a market they struggle with heavily. Then some secondary cities - Hamilton for example, but the list is short.

WestJet does fine in Winnipeg for its needs, generally. Its not a hub, so you can't expect the world.

[kattiff]

Goodbye Lynx

I hope the crews, staff and personnel are able to find jobs quickly.

[The Jabroni]

Never flew Lynx, but yikes. That's another carrier in the mix with Zip, Canada 3000, and other, for lack of a better term, "fly by night" carriers around the country.

[Justanothermember]

As far as YWG is concerned, Lynx only flew to YYC (seasonal), YVR and YYZ, and provided no options for connecting to other flights. Not to mention all three of these routes are very well serviced by multiple airlines. I actually think we have too much Calgary service as it is for our need, and I'm pretty unphased with one of the Calgary routes being eliminated. I'd rather have more connections to YVR and YUL personally. I don't see this having a major impact on YWG at all.

With that being said, I do hope Flair manages to hold on and survive their current financial issues. We need at least one lost cost carrier in this country to keep WS and AC in line pricewise.

[Myst]

I would agree that Lynx is not really a loss. I don’t think they’ll be any more missed than Jetsgo.

Porter is quite likely to add a YUL route. I like that they are trying to offer a mid market product, not just bottom of the barrel. But there is a lot of worry they’re trying to grow too fast, and are operating at a loss.

Flair is going to be interesting to watch. I don’t think Lynx being gone is any guarantee that any pressure gets taken off them.

[bowling_ball]

Not sure where this info should go, but we're working on the new Perimeter Air terminal expansion. It's primarily a CLT structure. You can see some of the construction here:

perimeter.ca/winnipeg-terminal-expansion/

[wags_in_the_peg]

^great to see, the Exchange Income group (perimeter, calm air, pal aerospace, etc) are great owners and do great and serving numerous communities across canada

[The Unknown Poster]

I was excited for the Atlanta route. Looking at an Orlando trip in July I can direct to Atlanta but when trying to go to Orlando it doesn’t include Atlanta. Have to go to Toronto (or elsewhere) to connect. Hmmm

Las Vegas being popular I wish there were more direct flights. First world problems.

[Myst]

If the ATL connection isn’t showing up when trying to book on Westjet, try searching on the Delta site. No guarantee - it can be hit or miss whether results show up…

[Wpgstvsouth94]

YWG has always had year-round service to MCO.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

YWG has always had year-round service to MCO.

On which airline?

[CoryB]

If YWG is going to continue to expand US bound service it needs to expand US preclearance. It really needs additional security screening capacity, additional hold capacity and ideally more amenities such as food service. Heck if it is allowed have existing food outlets elsewhere on the secure side offer deliveries to a pass through window/counter to the US side even if that requires staff supervision in the pass over.