YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[giallo]

I rolled into YVR international arrival area last Monday afternoon, and it was a gong show. Took over half an hour to get through customs. There were six international flights that all landed within 20 minutes of each other, and two people in the customs booths.

[zahav]

Originally Posted by giallo

I rolled into YVR international arrival area last Monday afternoon, and it was a gong show. Took over half an hour to get through customs. There were six international flights that all landed within 20 minutes of each other, and two people in the customs booths.

Ugh this isn't good to hear... I don't know why this problem seems to plague Canadian airports. Is it just staffing shortages? CBSA is not like being a doctor or lawyer, training is provided by the employer so it's not like you need a university degree or something. I don't know why there's such a disconnect between job seekers and jobs that need people. A job with the CBSA is stable, benefits, decent pay, it is absurd there's unemployment when critical shortages exist in jobs that most people could easily fill... If the problem isn't staffing, then what could it be? Maybe kiosk issues? Whatever it is, YVR better fix it before we have a 2023 Toronto Pearson situation on our hands (when the insane line ups and delays made headlines).

Exactly, YVR is still doing incredibly well. A minor correction but LH wasn't at YYC pre pandemic ( I guess with Discover airlines now at 12x weekly March 31-End of October, plus Condor it's still a capacity boost on YYC-FRA). But otherwise yeah both YVR and YYC are doing fairly well.
Yes you are right, it was AC who operated the FRA route, not LH. So Discover and Condor were gains internationally, which is good!

[osirisboy]

Half an hour to go through customs a lot?! ������♂️ I think that’s reasonable.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Half an hour to go through customs a lot?! ������♂️ I think that’s reasonable.

Generally, I can get through YVR's customs in under 15 minutes when it's running smoothly, so 30-40 minutes is double what it usually takes. My main takeaway was that there were only two booths open with hundreds of people waiting in line. Add to that, residents and foreigners weren't separated, and shared the same line.

Most of my time at YVR is waiting for my baggage to come down the line. For whatever reason, YVR has always been insanely slow to get baggage on the conveyor belt.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Intl Maple Leaf lounge struggling to cope despite (at the time we were there) only LHR and MEX on AC and AKL on NZ. Cannot imagine what it would be like later in the evening or peak early afternoon. Lounges seem to be struggling everywhere.

Yep, these days almost anyone is getting into lounge with their credit card.

• Video Link

[Johnny Aussie]

Went through YVR a few weeks ago and it flowed very smoothly. I was surprised to see so many of the automated machines. Can’t recall how many flights were in but it was pretty smooth! I suppose comparing to many other international arrival experiences was a real breeze!

LH did serve YYC at the same time as AC but that was quite a few years ago now. LH pulled out not that longer after starting. Left it to AC only. Even back in the 80s as well LH served YYC.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

December numbers out

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents...2---december/december-traffic-update.pdf

Total: 24,938,184 +30.9%

Domestic: 12,812,955 +20.9%
Transborder: 6,047,572 +38.5%
International: 6,077,657 +50.1%

Pretty strong results. Only ~1.4 million off of 2019 numbers, or around 5.5%. Most of that difference is international non-US, but with a 50% increase, is clearly on its way back up to where it was.

[trofirhen]

If you'll permit me ... everything begins with an idea, and focusing on business traffic, examples (from Seattle, as it happens) are upcoming SEA - Begaluru route on AA (Bengaluru being a powerhouse tech centre / Year-round Aer Lingus to Dublin . that city being a major European tech hub): two examples of how a city's economic sectors, if important enough, drive business traffic and make it worthwhile for an airline to negotiate a route, probably O&D, as well. (Airlines 101_)

Vancouver's economy is developing a substantial medical sector.
*(click this and read it if interested)
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023JEDI0022-000540

In India, the city with the most signicant medical industry > population is Hyderabad. Is an eventual YVR<>HYD possible Even more importantly, can Vancouver diversify its economy to the point of importance? The medical / pharma sector here and in Hyderabad comes to my mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Hyderabad

In any event, it seems that, given that business traffic puts butter on their bread, airlines will seek out possible city destinations, mark their economic profile, and try and start a route with a ++yield factor, if there are sufficiently large markets within those sectors. Hey ... you never know

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

If you'll permit me ... everything begins with an idea, and focusing on business traffic, examples (from Seattle, as it happens) are upcoming SEA - Begaluru route on AA (Bengaluru being a powerhouse tech centre / Year-round Aer Lingus to Dublin . that city being a major European tech hub): two examples of how a city's economic sectors, if important enough, drive business traffic and make it worthwhile for an airline to negotiate a route, probably O&D, as well. (Airlines 101_)

Vancouver's economy is developing a substantial medical sector.
*(click this and read it if interested)
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023JEDI0022-000540

In India, the city with the most signicant medical industry > population is Hyderabad. Is an eventual YVR<>HYD possible Even more importantly, can Vancouver diversify its economy to the point of importance? The medical / pharma sector here and in Hyderabad comes to my mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Hyderabad

In any event, it seems that, given that business traffic puts butter on their bread, airlines will seek out possible city destinations, mark their economic profile, and try and start a route with a ++yield factor, if there are sufficiently large markets within those sectors. Hey ... you never know

Not certain how much overlap there is between that industry in India and North America. If you were apply this principle, I would expect Raleigh-Durham, to be more likely.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

If you'll permit me ... everything begins with an idea, and focusing on business traffic, examples (from Seattle, as it happens) are upcoming SEA - Begaluru route on AA (Bengaluru being a powerhouse tech centre / Year-round Aer Lingus to Dublin . that city being a major European tech hub): two examples of how a city's economic sectors, if important enough, drive business traffic and make it worthwhile for an airline to negotiate a route, probably O&D, as well. (Airlines 101_)

Vancouver's economy is developing a substantial medical sector.
*(click this and read it if interested)
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023JEDI0022-000540

In India, the city with the most signicant medical industry > population is Hyderabad. Is an eventual YVR<>HYD possible Even more importantly, can Vancouver diversify its economy to the point of importance? The medical / pharma sector here and in Hyderabad comes to my mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Hyderabad

In any event, it seems that, given that business traffic puts butter on their bread, airlines will seek out possible city destinations, mark their economic profile, and try and start a route with a ++yield factor, if there are sufficiently large markets within those sectors. Hey ... you never know

Sure, BC is definitely leading the country in terms of growth in that segment of the economy, however, the Windsor-Quebec City corridor is a far larger life science hotspot than Vancouver (especially Toronto and Montreal), so who's to say someone doesn't start YYZ-HYD or YUL-HYD? I mention the corridor because cities like Quebec City, Hamilton and Ottawa have pretty important life science sectors as well.

https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/lifesciences/the-top-cities-for-life-sciences-companies-in-canada/

https://www.investcanada.ca/news/life-sciences-ontario-quebec-corridor

https://vial.com/blog/articles/top-5-contract-research-organizations-in-canada/?

Originally Posted by casper

Not certain how much overlap there is between that industry in India and North America. If you were apply this principle, I would expect Raleigh-Durham, to be more likely.

Which is why RDU is attracting a lot of foreign airlines right now, like AF, LH, Copa, Aeromexico, Icelandair etc.

RDU is on quite a roll of late.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by nname

There, AC officially gave up on China for S24, and they just allocate the last frequency to KIX. YVR-KIX will now run 6x weekly from mid-June until the end of season. This is on top of the new YYZ-KIX route, which is likely using the frequency freed up from TLV.

So the following routes will rotate for S24 from June:
Late night: SIN x4, HKG x3
Mid-day: KIX x6, DUB x4, PVG x4

Osaka is a pretty popular spot for Asian tourists from as a lower-cost way to experience Japan... along with more opportunities for food tourism. Great to see it get more attention from YVR.

I wonder if it will capture some connecting pax from 2nd tier cities in Asia... though I suspect most still connect through TYO airports.

YYZ-KIX is interesting, but selfishly I hope this doesn't take away pax from YVR-KIX as AC has canceled this route before.

[trofirhen]

A goodly number of years ago, back sometime around 2010, give or take, there was an announcement (Posted by Johnny Aussie) that he knew of a "ground-breaking' game changing" route upcoming to YVR.
When asked, he coyly replied that it would be bigger than Croatia Air Lines, and smaller than Delta. In fact, I found out much later via an acquaintance at YVR, was that it would have been LATAM Peru, LIMA - YVR. Ten or more years ago, an article in a business magazine stated that with (then) new visa ease- ups meant YVR - Brazil flights would be "imminent." People have mentioned Bogota as a more realistic possibility, but even with the surge in the Latin America demographic in Vancouver, ... nope, nothing. ( To boot, I dream of YVR becoming a 5-continent airport, but who cares, right?) Continue to transit via YYZ or MEX or IAH ...

[nname]

A few random changes:
ZG increase NRT to 5x weekly from late July
AC reduce BNE to 6x weekly from May, while increase HKG to 11x weekly
CX increase HKG to 10x weekly from May

Latest cut/reduction for S24 from AC:
YHZ reduce to 1x daily until late July
DEN, SFO have one daily flight converted to Express

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

A goodly number of years ago, back sometime around 2010, give or take, there was an announcement (Posted by Johnny Aussie) that he knew of a "ground-breaking' game changing" route upcoming to YVR.
When asked, he coyly replied that it would be bigger than Croatia Air Lines, and smaller than Delta. In fact, I found out much later via an acquaintance at YVR, was that it would have been LATAM Peru, LIMA - YVR. Ten or more years ago, an article in a business magazine stated that with (then) new visa ease- ups meant YVR - Brazil flights would be "imminent." People have mentioned Bogota as a more realistic possibility, but even with the surge in the Latin America demographic in Vancouver, ... nope, nothing. ( To boot, I dream of YVR becoming a 5-continent airport, but who cares, right?) Continue to transit via YYZ or MEX or IAH ...

YVR-GRU would be amazing.
One of the problems is that transiting via YYZ just isn't that much of a penalty:
[IMG]http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=YVR-SAO,YVR-YYZ-SAO&MS=wls&MP=ortho&MC=CUN&MX=540x540&PM=*[/IMG]
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=YVR-SAO,YVR-YYZ-SAO&MS=wls&MP=ortho&MC=CUN&MX=540x540&PM=*

It's only a 4% longer to fly via YYZ. People forget how far Sao Paolo is. It's almost the same distance as Aukland, NZ.

As for LIMA and Bogota... those would be great wins for YVR. Although not QUITE as connected as GRU, still great connections... and between 14–17% shorter when flying direct.

Lima is about the same distance as Seoul, and Tokyo is about 11% longer than YVR-BOG... so they'd be nice additions to YVR's destination list, for sure.

[Vin]

Have they brought the British Airways A380 back? Haven't seen it for years now.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by Vin

Have they brought the British Airways A380 back? Haven't seen it for years now.

It's seasonal for Summer operations. Hope it comes back this summer.

In other news, Lynx Air announced today that they are shutting down admist rumours of a merger with Flair.

Last day of operations is on the 26th of February.

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

It's seasonal for Summer operations. Hope it comes back this summer. [...]

British Airways will be operating the A350-1000 to Heathrow and a B777-200ER to Gatwick, so roughly the same capacity as the A380 but double the frequency instead.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231123-bans24lgwyvr

[madog222]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

In other news, Lynx Air announced today that they are shutting down admist rumours of a merger with Flair.

Last day of operations is on the 26th of February.

They’ve filed for creditor protection so I’m guessing any merger is off.

[trofirhen]

When Turkish applied for YVR, the requested 5x weekly and were granted three. OK. Seattle petitioned for TK following the example in Vancouver, and got them the following year.
Now Seattle has 7x weekly (daily, 7/7, that is) and YVR still has three. A question: will TK passengers who need a flight on a day not served out of Vancouver, bleed off to Seattle? Why is Transport Canada so seemingly tight about this, and other examples like it (Munich springs to mind, not to mention QR and EK. Yes, Seattle has a bigger metro, at 4.1m compared to our 2.6+m, and importantly, Seattle has a much larger economy with more business traffic. /// But I still would love to know how much traffic Seattle gains at the benefit of our Canadian regulations, which are often tight; bilateral aviation rules being no exception, and how much YVR loses because of them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

When Turkish applied for YVR, the requested 5x weekly and were granted three. OK. Seattle petitioned for TK following the example in Vancouver, and got them the following year.
Now Seattle has 7x weekly (daily, 7/7, that is) and YVR still has three. A question: will TK passengers who need a flight on a day not served out of Vancouver, bleed off to Seattle? Why is Transport Canada so seemingly tight about this, and other examples like it (Munich springs to mind, not to mention QR and EK. Yes, Seattle has a bigger metro, at 4.1m compared to our 2.6+m, and importantly, Seattle has a much larger economy with more business traffic. /// But I still would love to know how much traffic Seattle gains at the benefit of our Canadian regulations, which are often tight; bilateral aviation rules being no exception, and how much YVR loses because of them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I’ll throw my two cents and give you my answer. Munich (Lufthansa) is probably filled with a high percentage of German tourists coming into YVR plus the usual Canadian ones going there to visit. Then a portion that is just using Munich to connect to the rest of the world. When it comes to Turkish Airlines I would guess a larger percentage of the passengers are just connecting over there to other locations. Think the Canadian government negotiates open skies agreements with other countries based on those percentages.