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  #7381  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 10:21 PM
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My kids in English sound somewhere in between Mélanie (at their strongest - but still not native speaker) and Geneviève Guilbault (at their weakest - but still not bad at all).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-2o59NxqBI&t=27s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwUB4bll17g
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  #7382  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 10:21 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
My kids have no accent in either language. At least to my ears.
Yeah, but they are raised bilingual. Here we were talking of people who were raised in one language, and learned the other later.
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  #7383  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
French is closer to German in terms of sounds (which is not surprising as French is the evolution of late Latin under Germanic influence due to the Frankish invasion). Native German speakers can speak surprisingly good French, with the proper accent, whereas native Anglophones can never speak unaccented French.

In my entire life, I have only met once an Anglophone (Australian guy studying in Paris) who could speak unaccented French. I was really stunned. At first I didn't even know he wasn't French. His only mistake in the entire year we spent together was he once said "la bambou" instead of "le bambou".

But apart from this exceptional case, Anglophones simply cannot speak unaccented French. Germanophones (and also Russophones) can. Spanish and Italian speakers are like English speakers: they cannot speak unaccented French.
Even the late Queen Elizabeth II?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L3_9BdgMXM
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  #7384  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
The French to English accent shift is hard in either direction.

Of all the languages I can passably speak, I find French the hardest to pronounce. Tonal languages are also hard, but the propensity to trip over words is not as high as it is in French. I don't really know how to describe it. I've never heard a French person who learned English after 18 nail one of the Anglo accents, either, which leads me to think it's a two way street.

Among people here, I imagine that Acajack has no accent in either language (i.e. a standard, middle class Quebecois accent in French, and an "Ontario and west" accent in English), and maybe lio too (?).
I've had the same experience. I find francophones (whether European, African, or Canadian) tend to speak pretty heavily accented English even if their fluency is almost perfect. (Same with adult English learners from South Asia, as well, btw). By contrast, a lot of folks from Central & Eastern Europe who are fluent in English often speak so well you'd think they were British or American. It really threw me off when I visited Central Europe, I came across so many people that I thought were British expats at first before finding out they were locals.
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  #7385  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Pourquoi est-ce qu'elle s'exprime en anglais ?

See, this is a major difference with Catalonia. In Catalonia, only half of the population speaks Catalan, but a Catalan government minister would NEVER respond to questions in Spanish. They only speak Catalan in public positions.
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  #7386  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Even the late Queen Elizabeth II?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L3_9BdgMXM
She had an English accent. Her French never struck me as very good. In general, Germanic princes speak far better French. The British royal family never made much of an effort to speak good French, probably because they felt superior since the 19th century (plus, like I said, the fact it's harder for Anglophone speakers than for German speakers to pronounce French properly). Some Germanic dukes/kings, on the other hand, spoke frankly flawless French.

See here for example the head of the Habsburg family, son of the last emperor of Austria-Hungary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrBP_g4sjk

Another one who spoke remarkably good French was Ataturk (the founder of modern Turkey). Turks also can pronounce French very well (like German and Russian speakers). See him here interrupt the US ambassador in French (because Ataturk couldn't speak English). Just imagine that today! And the US ambassador perfectly understood his French. Another era!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGVTv8Xep1c

In the current US government, the Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaks very good French. This is as good as a native English speaker is going to speak French (i.e. with still an English accent, but far less than Queen Elizabeth II, and a more fluent level of French above all, as he's able to speak it without notes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI46ItTxxzA
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  #7387  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2024, 11:36 PM
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Jodie Foster speaks impeccable (to my ears) French. She's definitely an Anglo.
Video Link
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  #7388  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 1:12 AM
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Yes, she's an exceptional case. As a matter of fact, she was in France last week, interviewed by French TV and radio stations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taUARlHKSDw&t=163s

I loved how she put in their place those Leftist journalists who proliferate in French public TV and radio stations: they tried to have her say things about politics, woke things, MeToo, etc, and she replied "I'm not a politician, I'm only an actor, and I try to do my job as best as I can". I wish French movie stars would be the same... instead of pontificating about politics and lecturing us all the time.

Anyway, yes she's an exceptional case, but even her has a tiny English accent. The Australian guy I was talking about had 0 English accent, which is on another level.
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  #7389  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozabald View Post
I think you are shattering the myth that many Quebecois have that French language services in Manitoba are nothing but cosmetic window dressing. They don't realize the extent of French language services which exist at the provincial level and in the City of Winnipeg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Shhh - you don't want to disrupt their world view.
And still, services in English are way bigger in Québec and ROC still believes that Anglophones are mistreated, or even (according to some) oppressed.

But we wouldn't want to disrupt ROC world view...
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  #7390  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
I hate when Québécois think that French is only relevant in Québec and that the rest of the country is bare bones. There are pockets like Manitoba and New Brunswick where French is alive and in some cases thriving. Sure the residents in these provinces still have to speak English in their daily lives, but the opportunity is presented to learn and utilize French in other parts of the country.
I am not saying that French is irrelevant in the ROC, I am just saying that services are not what they should be and definitely not on par with English services in Québec.

And what makes it worst is when Québec is called racist for the "terrible" levels of services in English while every excuse is good to defend bad services in French on other provinces.
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  #7391  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozabald View Post
Wow, such an immature response. That's right, there's only four people in all of Ontario, Manitoba and PEI providing services in French.

I'm sure Susan Starkey of Montreal would agree with your assessment of English services being first class in Quebec. Or how about Elena Montecalvo?
In the media, they talk about the exceptions and when things are not working. And stories get more points if they can speak a narrative that will anger people, even if it is only on preconceived ideas.

They don't speak of Francophones getting lack of services in French because it is seen as the norm for diverse reasons.
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  #7392  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 3:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Pourquoi est-ce qu'elle s'exprime en anglais ?

See, this is a major difference with Catalonia. In Catalonia, only half of the population speaks Catalan, but a Catalan government minister would NEVER respond to questions in Spanish. They only speak Catalan in public positions.
They always have, if they know English.

Even the Parti Québécois and Bloc Québécois answer questions in English.
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  #7393  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
They always have, if they know English.

Even the Parti Québécois and Bloc Québécois answer questions in English.
That's where Québec is a bit schizophrenic. On the one hand they refuse to give English official status, they don't want to be a bilingual province like New Brunswick, they are officially unilingual French, but on the other hand it seems they are not entirely comfortable with it, perhaps feeling unconsciously guilty, I don't know, so they speak English to journalists, which contradicts their official language policy. The Catalans would never do that.
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  #7394  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
That's where Québec is a bit schizophrenic. On the one hand they refuse to give English official status, they don't want to be a bilingual province like New Brunswick, they are officially unilingual French, but on the other hand it seems they are not entirely comfortable with it, perhaps feeling unconsciously guilty, I don't know, so they speak English to journalists, which contradicts their official language policy. The Catalans would never do that.
All stateless minority peoples respond to their specific situations and challenges in their own ways, and some of those ways may seem bizarre or illogical to outsiders.

Québécois nationalists have always been vulnerable and sensitive to allegations of xenophobia and anglophobia - the latter being important because anglophones are our only neighbours all around us, whereas Catalans have neighbours who speak multiple languages. So perhaps they have less of a concern of being labelled "castellanophobes".

That said, Catalans have always controlled the economy of Catalonia (and were once some of the most powerful industralists and businesspeople in Spain), something which is very different from Quebec where anglophones controlled the economy until the 60s-70s.

It's interesting to me that in spite of the Catalan control the economy in Catalonia generally uses Spanish to function internally. (I understand they'd use Spanish to deal with the rest of Spain.)

In Quebec, francophones have taken control of much of the economy in the past couple of decades, and where Québécois francophones are in control, the internal operating language tends to be French or very predominantly French with English used only when necessary.
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  #7395  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 2:02 PM
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maîtres chez nous.
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  #7396  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
But apart from this exceptional case, Anglophones simply cannot speak unaccented French. Germanophones (and also Russophones) can. Spanish and Italian speakers are like English speakers: they cannot speak unaccented French.
However... who cares? As long as people can communicate, why would you care if somebody has an accent or not?

Of course, most of us recognize yet another generalization to 'prove' that anglophones are inferior. All I can say is that you sure must have a lot of free time (that is, unless this is a job for you).
     
     
  #7397  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
However... who cares? As long as people can communicate, why would you care if somebody has an accent or not?

Of course, most of us recognize yet another generalization to 'prove' that anglophones are inferior. All I can say is that you sure must have a lot of free time (that is, unless this is a job for you).
I think it is his job.

I hope Vladimir is paying him well.............
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  #7398  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 3:31 PM
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Concordia, McGill to take Quebec to court over tuition hikes for out-of-province students
Montreal's Concordia University sees 27% drop in applicants from rest of Canada
Kwabena Oduro, Isaac Olson, Matthew Lapierre · CBC News · Posted: Feb 22, 2024 7:07 PM AST | Last Updated: 11 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/concordia-mcgill-quebec-tuition-1.7122947

Quote:
Concordia's application for judicial review, filed in Quebec Superior Court on Friday morning, asks the court to quash the tuition hikes, arguing that its purpose is to weaken English-language universities and is based on "stereotypes and false assumptions about the English-speaking community of Quebec."
Quote:
"We are undertaking this legal action because we believe that these measures are illegal and if upheld, will threaten McGill's mission, its place as one of the world's top universities and its vital role in Quebec," said Deep Saini, president and vice-chancellor of McGill.
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  #7399  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ToxiK View Post
And still, services in English are way bigger in Québec and ROC still believes that Anglophones are mistreated, or even (according to some) oppressed.

But we wouldn't want to disrupt ROC world view...
"Services in English are way bigger in Quebec".
Perhaps if you are comparing Quebec to Newfoundland, BC, Alberta.

No way when compared to Manitoba, Ontario and especially New Brunswick.
     
     
  #7400  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2024, 3:44 PM
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I completely understand the concerns the English Universities have with the tuition increases.

However, I selfishly want them to stay because it means I have a better chance of getting into the McGill Urban Planning masters program for Autumn 2025
     
     
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