Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I've heard it's now spread into Rive Sud, and it's increasingly common in Brossard and Longueuil fast food restos to be served by English only speaking staff. Wouldn't be surprised if it keeps spreading through Montérégie.

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also spread to eastern parts of Gatineau whereas before it was basically unheard of here.

Aren't there laws in Québec regulating language use at work? Why aren't these businesses fined if they don't respect the linguistic regulations?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I should had qualified that I'm referring more about younger urban Québécois, from GenZ/A to Millennial. Whether they're in Sherbrooke, TR, Montreal or Québec they all gravitate towards international French these days.

Why would that be? Do they watch series or videos from France online?

Speaking of accents, Easy French made this video in Montréal a few years ago. I thought the 2 guys at 2:00 in the video (they come back at 2:40 also) had a really thick accent (apparently they come from Gaspésie), and they use TONS of English words (is that still French?? "I guess qu'on est un party mix de tout ça là" ).

On the other hand, the woman at 0:50 has very little accent. Can you guys figure out from where in Québec is her accent? I thought almost she wasn't from Québec.

• Video Link

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Can you guys figure out from where in Québec is her accent? I thought almost she wasn't from Québec.

To me she sounds like a Montrealer who is code-switching a bit to sound more international. It's something a lot of people do unconsciously when they're speaking to someone from France.

It's also possible she has a French partner, or French parents, or lived for a time in France. I have a friend born and raised in Montreal, whose mother is French and who spent all of her summers in France as a kid. When she is speaking to her mom or to someone else from France, she sounds a lot like the woman at 0:50. When she is speaking to someone else from Quebec, she has a much more standard Montreal accent.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Speaking of accents, Easy French made this video in Montréal a few years ago. I thought the 2 guys at 2:00 in the video (they come back at 2:40 also) had a really thick accent (apparently they come from Gaspésie), and they use TONS of English words (is that still French?? "I guess qu'on est un party mix de tout ça là" ).

Yes I'm very familiar with that accent..Gaspésie is unique in that it's bordering New Brunswick and has historic Anglophone communities. It's also a very popular area for New Englanders to travel to. So their English exposure is much higher. Their accent is also heavily influenced by Acadie, since usually you'd have at least a few relatives living in Campbellton/Bathurst/Caraquet.

I always found it to be interesting trivia that the region is both the birthplace of René Lévesque and Hurricane Hazel McCallion (matriarch of the City of Mississauga, beloved politician immortalized by English Canada).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I always found it to be interesting trivia that the region is both the birthplace of René Lévesque and Hurricane Hazel McCallion (matriarch of the City of Mississauga, beloved politician immortalized by English Canada).

Un vrai "party mix" !

PS: I don't even know where that "party mix" comes from. I've never heard that phrase in the US, or in England.

[lio45]

It’s a common line of mixed munchies, as opposed to bags that are homogeneous.

https://www.olddutchfoods.ca/product-flavour/humpty-dumpty/party-mix/original-party

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Aren't there laws in Québec regulating language use at work? Why aren't these businesses fined if they don't respect the linguistic regulations?

Correct but the resources to deal with complaints are not sufficient, especially given the recent upsurge in English-only service.

Which BTW is still only sporadic even in Montreal. One of my kids lives in central-western Montreal and you get addressed and served in French in the vast vast majority of places.

It's just that the English only thing seems to be increasing, and is less sporadic.

When something never used to happen before, you'll notice even when it becomes very occasional.

[Acajack]

To me the lady at 0:50 speaks like very few Montrealers speak. Montrealers tend to not go half way and be all either one way - internationalized and urban but still clearly Québécois - or all the other way which is a full Euro-French accent with only the odd Québécois term or inflection.

The second group I mentioned above is much much smaller than the first of course.

So that woman sounds she may have shared her life between Québec or France, or maybe her family is mixed with people from the two places.

[Kilgore Trout]

You haven't heard the switch, Acajack? I remember one day a couple of years ago when two pretty girls were sitting on the back of a U-Haul truck in front of my place, and my 60-something neighbour started chatting to them from the upstairs balcony. It turned out they had just moved to Montreal from Rennes and were picking up a sofa they'd found on FB Marketplace. My neighbour has a very typical middle-class Montreal accent but as the conversation progressed he sounded more and more French...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Correct but the resources to deal with complaints are not sufficient, especially given the recent upsurge in English-only service.

Which BTW is still only sporadic even in Montreal.

So if it's still sporadic, they should be able to deal with it even with limited resources.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

You haven't heard the switch, Acajack? I remember one day a couple of years ago when two pretty girls were sitting on the back of a U-Haul truck in front of my place, and my 60-something neighbour started chatting to them from the upstairs balcony. It turned out they had just moved to Montreal from Rennes and were picking up a sofa they'd found on FB Marketplace. My neighbour has a very typical middle-class Montreal accent but as the conversation progressed he sounded more and more French...

Reverse can be true too. I once went to see a young female dentist in Paris who was returning from Québec City where she had worked (or finished her dental studies), and to my surprise she had some Québec intonations (like the way you guys pronounce "université", she pronounced it that way). That was very very odd for a French person.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

What??? Ontario is not a bilingual utopia? Signage is pretty much as English in Ontario as it is French in Québec? But at least, Francophones have as good services in French as Anglophones have in Québec, right?

I guess you must drive with your eyes closed in Ontario with that comment. There's a heck lot more bilingual highway signage in Ontario than Quebec.

With respect to health and social services, English speaking Quebecers do have a legal right to receive health and social services in English. But this right is not absolute: there are limits.

First, to be able to provide English language health and social services, the institution must be designated by the Quebec government.

There is NO right in Quebec for patients to have their health and social services records (files) in English. The general rule is that the person preparing a document for this kind of record, such as a doctor, can decide whether to write it in English or French. However, a health or social services institution does have the option of requiring documents to be written only in French.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

There's a heck lot more bilingual highway signage in Ontario than Quebec.

The big difference is French is not a threat in Ontario, whereas since 1760 English has been, is, and will be a threat in Québec for as long as Québec resits as an isolated linguistic island in a vast unilingual Anglophone ocean. Unless of course people are happy with a fully Anglicized Québec province, like Louisiana, but then they should openly say so.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So if it's still sporadic, they should be able to deal with it even with limited resources.

Resource levels are really really low. To the point where it is a political issue.

[Acajack]

Yes I have definitely heard the switch and even do it myself probably, unconsciously. But it doesn't sound like how that lady is speaking. She sounds like she is using both accents at the same time, not switching between them. Of course some people do that too but don't generally sound like her
More typical sounding would be political commentator Mathieu Bock-Côté.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

You haven't heard the switch, Acajack? I remember one day a couple of years ago when two pretty girls were sitting on the back of a U-Haul truck in front of my place, and my 60-something neighbour started chatting to them from the upstairs balcony. It turned out they had just moved to Montreal from Rennes and were picking up a sofa they'd found on FB Marketplace. My neighbour has a very typical middle-class Montreal accent but as the conversation progressed he sounded more and more French...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Resource levels are really really low. To the point where it is a political issue.

So the Anglo press is wrong when they denounce a language Gestapo in Québec?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So the Anglo press is wrong when they denounce a language Gestapo in Québec?

I'll let you come up with you own answer for that one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1p52z6XEmI&t=3s

[Acajack]

Quebec's so-called and much-feared language gestapo or language police receives between 6000 and 7000 complaints a year these days, and has... 8 inspectors to do the work. (The number of inspectors was doubled from 4.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

I guess you must drive with your eyes closed in Ontario with that comment. There's a heck lot more bilingual highway signage in Ontario than Quebec.

With respect to health and social services, English speaking Quebecers do have a legal right to receive health and social services in English. But this right is not absolute: there are limits.

First, to be able to provide English language health and social services, the institution must be designated by the Quebec government.

There is NO right in Quebec for patients to have their health and social services records (files) in English. The general rule is that the person preparing a document for this kind of record, such as a doctor, can decide whether to write it in English or French. However, a health or social services institution does have the option of requiring documents to be written only in French.

Well, you are finally right about something. This is true, which means that unilingual francophones in Quebec may also have their personal medical records in English if the professional makes the personal choice to write them up in English. So they need to get someone to translate for them if they want to understand. This has made then news in Quebec a few times because people have complained.

Note that of course in Ontario francophones have ZERO rights to have their personal medical files in French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The big difference is French is not a threat in Ontario, whereas since 1760 English has been, is, and will be a threat in Québec for as long as Québec resits as an isolated linguistic island in a vast unilingual Anglophone ocean. Unless of course people are happy with a fully Anglicized Québec province, like Louisiana, but then they should openly say so.

People in Quebec who would want a fully anglicized province like Louisiana are a relatively small minority.

Where opinions differ are on the means that should be used to avoid that fate for us.

Though most people do favour at least some coercive measures to protect French.