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  #141  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2024, 7:41 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Summerville View Post
I’m in the 50’s group. The 90’s were horrible for 20-somethings and everyone did seem to move away to Toronto or Vancouver. Not Alberta….those were people who are now in their 40’s.

In the 90’s,…decisions were probably not made with the younger generations in mind. I’m really happy that things are changing,…my oldest is actually saying that he may stick around.
I guess here's where my experience and that of those around me must have been atypical. I graduated post-secondary in the 1990s and had numerous job prospects, chose the career path I wished to follow and was never without a job from that point on.

Among my friends and acquaintances, the ones who moved away (mostly to Toronto) did so not because they couldn't find a job here, but because they wanted to work in environments that were not possible here, in a smaller city with a smaller job market. They actually had jobs here, but left them to search for bigger opportunities in bigger (well, the biggest) cities. They moved because they wanted to, not because they had to. I actually had a job offer at the Toronto head office of the company that I worked for, but I turned it down because I didn't want to live in the Toronto ratrace - I liked it here, and could visit Toronto, or any other city, any time I wanted to... but didn't want to live there. It was my choice.

This is why I don't get the doom and gloom and false narratives... perhaps my experience was different than others, but I also find that those with negative attitudes tend to defeat themselves and limit their opportunities, and also are the ones that complain that everything is terrible. So...

Anyhow... I'm a little disappointed for letting myself get drawn into this. Note to self: ignore the negativity... let it go and save yourself the frustration...
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  #142  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2024, 7:53 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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When you go to a Mooseheads game you are watching some of the soon-to-be NHL players. The talent and possibility to continuously improve is obvious.
When you go to a high school school soccer final you will see several players who may develop to the level of the national teams.
If HRM is to build a stadium it should ensure that the city controls who uses the property as opposed to the Wanderers FC proposal which anticipates they control who, what and when the stadium is used.

Last edited by Colin May; Jan 28, 2024 at 12:47 AM.
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  #143  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2024, 10:44 PM
LikeCranes LikeCranes is offline
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post


The Halifax Voyageurs were mostly before my time as a later Generation X. I fall in the population dip between the Baby Boomers and Millennials. The dip is there because our generation was significantly smaller in total population compared to post war baby boomers. Also many in that generation had to leave Halifax to find work as the Baby boomers had most of the jobs.

The Halifax Voyageurs attendance at the Metro Centre never averaged over 5,000. The Nova Scotia Oilers and Halifax Citadels also never averaged over 5,000.

We have the Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds to thank for finally packing the Metro Centre on a regular basis. The Mooseheads quickly began averaging over 5,000 in only the first 3 years of existence. Best Hockey we ever saw in Halifax was Nathan Mackinnon's President cup winning year.

The Halifax Mooseheads and Halifax Thunderbirds now both average over 8,000 at the Scotiabank Centre.

This weekend thanks to the Moose and Tbirds Scotiabank Centre will see a local sports Attendance at SBC of approx. 27,000!

Mooseheads vs Islanders Friday Night Attendance was 9590.
Halifax Thunderbirds vs Rochester Saturday Night is likely near 8,000 based on ticket sales.
Mooseheads vs Cape Breton is likely +9,000 based on ticket sales.

And now we have The Halifax Wanderers to thank for packing a previously neglected Wanderers grounds. They had an average attendance this year of 5,854 in a temporary bleacher stadium.
Just want to point out it was the Nova Scotia Voyageurs, not Halifax.
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  #144  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 4:00 PM
KMcK KMcK is offline
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The 1990s were a brutal decade. Oil was ~$20/barrel so Alberta was in decline. Saskatchewan was teetering on bankruptcy. Ontario was going through a serious deindustrialization period. Canada had its fiscal crisis so all governments had to significantly downsize. The only graduates entering the work force then who had good job prospects were IT workers. The baby boomers pretended the rest of us didn't exist as they desperately tried to preserve their jobs, pensions, and other benefits.
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  #145  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 5:06 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by KMcK View Post
The 1990s were a brutal decade. Oil was ~$20/barrel so Alberta was in decline. Saskatchewan was teetering on bankruptcy. Ontario was going through a serious deindustrialization period. Canada had its fiscal crisis so all governments had to significantly downsize. The only graduates entering the work force then who had good job prospects were IT workers. The baby boomers pretended the rest of us didn't exist as they desperately tried to preserve their jobs, pensions, and other benefits.
The Dow quadrupled in the 1990s
Closed at 2,753 on Dec 28 1989 and at 11,487 on Dec 31 1999
I was working overseas when crude oil was less than $3 a barrel and life was good.
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  #146  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 5:49 PM
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The Dow quadrupled in the 1990s
Closed at 2,753 on Dec 28 1989 and at 11,487 on Dec 31 1999
I was working overseas when crude oil was less than $3 a barrel and life was good.
What does living overseas in the 90's have to do with Halifax and building a stadium?
If life was so good why didn't you move to Halifax and push for a stadium to be built in the 90's?

For Baby boomers life might have been good, but for generation X not so much when it came to job prospects in Nova Scotia:


https://halifax.citynews.ca/2022/04/28/nova-scotian-unemployment-continues-to-decline-5302564/
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  #147  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 7:04 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
What does living overseas in the 90's have to do with Halifax and building a stadium?
If life was so good why didn't you move to Halifax and push for a stadium to be built in the 90's?

For Baby boomers life might have been good, but for generation X not so much when it came to job prospects in Nova Scotia:


https://halifax.citynews.ca/2022/04/28/nova-scotian-unemployment-continues-to-decline-5302564/
Read my post again, read it slowly and carefully. Crude oil was below $3 in the 1960's. My generation had no influence on the price of crude oil. When we bought our house in 1983 the mortgage rate was over 13%, today it is less than 5%. A few years earlier the rate was circa 22% thanks to Pierre Trudeau. Mortgage foreclosures across Canada were at record highs. Be careful who you vote for and stay away from pie-in-the-sky-before-you-die politicians.
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  #148  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 7:19 PM
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  #149  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 9:11 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by KMcK View Post
The 1990s were a brutal decade. Oil was ~$20/barrel so Alberta was in decline. Saskatchewan was teetering on bankruptcy. Ontario was going through a serious deindustrialization period. Canada had its fiscal crisis so all governments had to significantly downsize. The only graduates entering the work force then who had good job prospects were IT workers. The baby boomers pretended the rest of us didn't exist as they desperately tried to preserve their jobs, pensions, and other benefits.
I worked in govt in the ‘90s. They talked about downsizing but it never actually happened because the bureaucrats silently refused to actually do it. The bureaucracy actually grew, although nowhere near as much as it has bloated in recent times.
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  #150  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2024, 10:05 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I'm thinking that Gen X and Millennials must be doing alright now, with all the 'boomers' retiring. Must be lots of senior positions going to the next in line, with some quick moves up the ladder (and more responsibility).

Now, back to the stadium, please...
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  #151  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2024, 3:31 PM
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  #152  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2024, 5:30 PM
KMcK KMcK is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I worked in govt in the ‘90s. They talked about downsizing but it never actually happened because the bureaucrats silently refused to actually do it. The bureaucracy actually grew, although nowhere near as much as it has bloated in recent times.
Did all the employees and elected officials of the 12 municipalities in Cape Breton and Halifax counties survive their respective amalgamations forced by the province?

Between early retirements at the top end and hiring freezes at the bottom end governments did contract. They also cut funding to outside organizations that employed lots of people. They claimed that by managing their way through the financial crisis with attrition policies no one was being hurt. The media bought that. No one seemed to care that Gen X was thrown under the bus so that 'no one was hurt'.

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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post

I'm thinking that Gen X and Millennials must be doing alright now, with all the 'boomers' retiring. Must be lots of senior positions going to the next in line, with some quick moves up the ladder (and more responsibility).
Not so for Gen X. On the way out the door the baby boomers passed over us and promoted their children's generation to senior positions. Many a friend has had the indignity of now working under a much younger person he initially trained or even being fired.
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  #153  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2024, 1:59 PM
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Did all the employees and elected officials of the 12 municipalities in Cape Breton and Halifax counties survive their respective amalgamations forced by the province?
More in my comment below, but in the case of both HRM and CBRM, the size of the bureaucracies of the amalgamated units quickly grew beyond the numbers combined from the original individual units. There was some early retirement, some largely ceremonial departures of director or higher-level people who did not succeed in competing for their old job (a despicable practice) and the like, but that was more than offset by creating more management doing essentially the same thing, responsible for some aspect of the duties and reporting to the successful candidates for the top level, as well as refilling union positions that were not allowed to remain empty/be deleted, and a general move to expand middle management and professional categories. Both municipalities provide an example of what not to do in such circumstances.

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Between early retirements at the top end and hiring freezes at the bottom end governments did contract. They also cut funding to outside organizations that employed lots of people. They claimed that by managing their way through the financial crisis with attrition policies no one was being hurt. The media bought that. No one seemed to care that Gen X was thrown under the bus so that 'no one was hurt'.
Well, govt did not owe Gen X a job. At the provincial level in NS there were a few years of budget freezes and the like but even at that the numbers of those employed were stable despite proclamations of cuts. The position numbers back them were reported in the budget documents each year and until somebody took the time to do a comparison year to year, the myth of downsizing was allowed to spread. Finally someone made a spreadsheet comparing those figures over the time period and officials were astounded to see the the totals were the same. Some positions were moved to agencies not directly in the civil service, but funded by the province so there were no cuts to overall budgets. Other positions were moved from department to department in a variation of the old shell game, while others still were allowed to remain vacant after someone left but were not deleted, and were eventually refilled when there was an opportunity to sneak a hire past the layers of oversight. There is nothing a bureaucrat does better than to beat the system.


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Not so for Gen X. On the way out the door the baby boomers passed over us and promoted their children's generation to senior positions. Many a friend has had the indignity of now working under a much younger person he initially trained or even being fired.
I hate to tell you this, but that is not unique to govt. Someone who is quite competent with many years of experience and who quietly goes about doing their job despite not being a sharp dresser, not seeking attention, being out of shape and not going to the gym every day, who is not particularly glib, who is wrinkled or balding, and who has seen it all over their years of working their way through the various levels of management, often gets a sharp, smooth-talking young exec parachuted in over top of everyone because they impress someone in HR or top management. Those new hires often crash and burn. But it is hardly unique to the "boomer" generation. In my experience you are lucky to work for merely competent top management, forget about great management. Most great managers do not last in govt because they can't manage given the obstacles put in their way. If they know what they're doing, they cannot stand it there. That's why most govt management is so bad and why govt fails to deliver so often. A lot of people in charge just don't have a clue.
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  #154  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2024, 2:56 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Good rundown, Keith. As a student, I had summer jobs for both the municipality and the feds, and after seeing the nonsense that goes on from the management and political side of things, plus the general low morale of the employees, I specifically targeted my career job search on the private sector. Looks like I made the right choice as I have little patience for that sort of nonsense and would have been miserable, despite the nice benefit and pension packages. Life is too short to hate every day you go to work.

I don't want to comment further, as it would be better to keep the thread on-topic, but I will finish up by saying that I will always see all of this generational talk as being kind of silly. We are all a product of our time and circumstances, and benefit from the good times and suffer when things are bad. All of us... people... not 'generation this' or 'generation that'.

You'd think by reading some of this nonsense that everybody born between 1965 and 1980 never were able to get a job, and were always mistreated by everybody, because some numbskull decided that people born in that age range has to be called Generation X. When I hear people say that their generation was mistreated by another generation, I just roll my eyes. If you are projecting that attitude to a prospective employer in a job interview situation, you will probably be passed over because the interviewer will worry that your bad attitude will pollute the workplace that you are hoping to be part of.

Now would be a good time to start talking about the Wanderers stadium again...
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  #155  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2024, 4:21 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I hate to tell you this, but that is not unique to govt. Someone who is quite competent with many years of experience and who quietly goes about doing their job despite not being a sharp dresser, not seeking attention, being out of shape and not going to the gym every day, who is not particularly glib, who is wrinkled or balding, and who has seen it all over their years of working their way through the various levels of management, often gets a sharp, smooth-talking young exec parachuted in over top of everyone because they impress someone in HR or top management. Those new hires often crash and burn. But it is hardly unique to the "boomer" generation. In my experience you are lucky to work for merely competent top management, forget about great management. Most great managers do not last in govt because they can't manage given the obstacles put in their way. If they know what they're doing, they cannot stand it there. That's why most govt management is so bad and why govt fails to deliver so often. A lot of people in charge just don't have a clue.
I'll happily second every word of that.

And the notion of one generation throwing another under a bus is no more than a facile, tiresome, self-serving fantasy.
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  #156  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2024, 6:17 PM
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I don't think any generation can be blamed for what they didn't foresee. The facts are just one generation is bigger than the generation that followed and it is now causing problems as the bigger generation leaves the workforce.



The massive tsunami of baby boomers retiring are left without enough healthcare workers to take care of them, just due to how large their population cohort is, and they are living longer than the previous generations. The Boomer generation can say Gen X (and Millennials etc.) "hey it's your problem now", but it's really boomers who are starting to suffer with a lack of services all around as they retire without replacements. Truth is we all suffer together. Ain't life grand.

Now let's build a stadium. Maybe it can help distract us from the approaching (imminent) demographics crisis. Or even better attract more young people to this city who are looking for fun activities in our city.

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  #157  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2024, 2:42 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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By your graph, looks like there are already more 20 - 40 year olds than anybody else. With the massive immigration numbers we are experiencing, I’m not so sure that we will experience a ‘demographic crisis’, TBH.

But whatever. I too hope the stadium happens as well. For sports fans who want to attend games, crises or not. Halifax deserves to have nice things to enjoy.
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  #158  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 12:35 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Anyone see the 'stadium' in the HRM Capital Budget ? ( Bike lanes are in at $17 million a year for many years - on a sheet i have, not sure if the document is in the public realm)
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  #159  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 1:43 AM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Anyone see the 'stadium' in the HRM Capital Budget ? ( Bike lanes are in at $17 million a year for many years - on a sheet i have, not sure if the document is in the public realm)
I can guarantee the city is not spending $17 million a year on bike lanes, given the progress being made.

By far the biggest bike lane expenditure Halifax is undertaking is the AAA cycling network, and most of that money comes from the federal government, though it appears in the city budget. The city spends pennies of its own money on bike infrastructure.
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  #160  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 2:54 PM
Dartguard Dartguard is online now
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I can guarantee the city is not spending $17 million a year on bike lanes, given the progress being made.

By far the biggest bike lane expenditure Halifax is undertaking is the AAA cycling network, and most of that money comes from the federal government, though it appears in the city budget. The city spends pennies of its own money on bike infrastructure.
The Bike community is having a bad month with the recent snow fall but the climate hysteria bunch is probably taking the month off too.
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