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  #521  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2024, 4:38 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
Impressive work digging up all that information. Thanks for posting it!
No probs. It was actually rather fun to do.
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  #522  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2024, 7:16 PM
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https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2024/westjet-s-expansive-summer-2024-schedule

WS formally announces its summer 2024 schedule. Highlights previously announced new routes including YYC-YDF as well as YYZ-YDF resuming.

Also a few extended routes to year-round like YYC-HNL/OGG,YVR-PHX and YEG-MCO.

Schedule hasn't yet been fully updated to reflect this yet though.
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  #523  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 5:31 PM
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YEG has posted 2023 numbers. Still a ways to go but have recovered to over 91% of pre-pandemic highs overall.

Domestic - 5,694,510 (+21.8% YOY)
Transborder - 737,613 (+71.9% YOY)
International - 485,296 (+77.5% YOY)
FBO (YEG break out fixed base operator numbers separately) - 581,744 (+24% YOY)

Total Passengers - 7,499,163 (+28.2% YOY)

https://flyeia.com/corporate/media/passenger-stats/
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  #524  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Base View Post
YEG has posted 2023 numbers. Still a ways to go but have recovered to over 91% of pre-pandemic highs overall.

Domestic - 5,694,510 (+21.8% YOY)
Transborder - 737,613 (+71.9% YOY)
International - 485,296 (+77.5% YOY)
FBO (YEG break out fixed base operator numbers separately) - 581,744 (+24% YOY)

Total Passengers - 7,499,163 (+28.2% YOY)

https://flyeia.com/corporate/media/passenger-stats/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/edmonto...tail_base%3BGSGrR2uAQ3Oc7angSZQvgQ%3D%3D
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  #525  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 6:42 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Here's the terminal numbers for YEG:

YEG December 2023 and year-end numbers (in brackets):

Terminal

Total Traffic: 525,650 passengers (YTD 6,917,419 passengers) = +2.1% (YTD +28.6%)
Domestic 390,676 passengers (YTD 5,694,510 passengers) = -2.8% (YTD +21.8%)
Transborder 66,823 passengers (YTD 737,613 passengers) = +13.0% (YTD 71.9%)
International 68,151 passengers (YTD 485,296 passengers) = +26.6% (YTD 77.5%)

https://flyeia.com/corporate/wp-content/uploads/12-2023-Public-Report-P1.pdf

Does any other airport out there report on FBO charter traffic and count it towards their pax totals? I know YYZ, YUL, YOW and YVR definitely do not do that. To me it seems like inflating of numbers.

YQB includes FBO scheduled airline traffic and reports it in a separate column. I think YWG count Perimeter traffic out of the Perimeter terminal as part of their total pax...while it isn't specified, it makes sense based on monthly pax counts.

Last edited by Dominion301; Feb 6, 2024 at 7:18 PM.
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  #526  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 6:54 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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YWG's Q4 and year-end pax numbers are out. YOW has just edged out YWG by just over 1,000 pax to regain its traditional 6th position.

Sector / Dec-22 / Dec-23 / % Change
Dom: 239,854 / 234,770 / -2.1%
TB: 23,044 / 33,139 / +43.8%
Int'l: 23,851 / 33,088 / +38.7%
TTL: 286,749 / 300,997 / +5.0%

Sector / Y-E 2022 / Y-E 2023 / % Change
Dom: 2,795,720 / 3,607,922 / +29.1%
TB: 164,906 / 320,884 / +94.6%
Int'l: 70,488 / 165,987 / +135.5%
TTL: 3,031,114 / 4,094,793 / +35.1%

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Nov-23 / Dec-23 / % Change
Dom: 249,582 / 234,770 / -5.9%
TB: 32,314 / 33,139 / +2.6%
Int'l: 12,883 / 33,088 / +156.8%
TTL: 294,779 / 300,997 / +2.1%
Avg/Day: 9,826 / 9,710 / -1.2%
% of month's avg daily pax vs 2019 total daily average = 79.0%
$ of month's avg daily pax for month vs same month in 2019 = 85.5%
YTD TTL vs YTD 2019 = 91.3%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2021
Dom: 3,607,922 / +202.1%
TB: 320,884 / +1,419.3%
Int'l: 165,987 / +2,022.3%
TTL: 4,094,793 / +234.8%

Last edited by Dominion301; Feb 6, 2024 at 7:16 PM.
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  #527  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 7:10 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Here's a side-by-side comparison of just how close the two were:

YWG full year 2023

Sector / Y-E 2022 / Y-E 2023 / % Change
Dom: 2,795,720 / 3,607,922 / +29.1%
TB: 164,906 / 320,884 / +94.6%
Int'l: 70,488 / 165,987 / +135.5%
TTL: 3,031,114 / 4,094,793 / +35.1%

YOW full year 2023

Sector / Y-E 2022 / Y-E 2023 / % Change
Dom: 2,708,999 / 3,202,899 / +18.2%
TB: 190,335 / 576,133 / +202.7%
Int'l: 93,000 / 316,882 / +214.8%
TTL: 2,992,334 / 4,095,914 / +36.5%
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  #528  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 8:02 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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^ That's tight ! Good job YOW ! Back in 6th spot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Canada#2023
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  #529  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Here's the terminal numbers for YEG:

YEG December 2023 and year-end numbers (in brackets):

Terminal

Total Traffic: 525,650 passengers (YTD 6,917,419 passengers) = +2.1% (YTD +28.6%)
Domestic 390,676 passengers (YTD 5,694,510 passengers) = -2.8% (YTD +21.8%)
Transborder 66,823 passengers (YTD 737,613 passengers) = +13.0% (YTD 71.9%)
International 68,151 passengers (YTD 485,296 passengers) = +26.6% (YTD 77.5%)

https://flyeia.com/corporate/wp-content/uploads/12-2023-Public-Report-P1.pdf

Does any other airport out there report on FBO charter traffic and count it towards their pax totals? I know YYZ, YUL, YOW and YVR definitely do not do that. To me it seems like inflating of numbers.

YQB includes FBO scheduled airline traffic and reports it in a separate column. I think YWG count Perimeter traffic out of the Perimeter terminal as part of their total pax...while it isn't specified, it makes sense based on monthly pax counts.
This is a good question. I asked this a year ago in another forum and was told others just included these numbers in their totals but wasn't totally convinced. Would make things look a lot worse if that is the case.
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  #530  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 8:14 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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There is always a discrepancy between StatsCan's pax numbers and the airport authorities' numbers. I was under the impression this was due to Statscan only counting terminal pax, whereas the airport authorities count FBO as well, to boost their numbers (or maybe the difference is rev vs. non rev? Not sure.)

YEG, in particular, would be dumb not to count it. All those charters to the oil sands makes a big difference in the numbers. I'm sure the others do as well, but don't have concrete proof to back that statement up.
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  #531  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 10:11 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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YXX posted 2023 numbers as well.

https://www.abbynews.com/local-news/abbo...shes-new-passenger-volume-record-7313015

1,275,484 (+28.5%)

Even though it's a record setting year, they lost a position in the national rankings (so far). YXE took them over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Canada#2023

Still a lot of variables at play in those ranks, with YQB and YYT yet to announced 2023 numbers.
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  #532  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 11:01 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
YXX posted 2023 numbers as well.

https://www.abbynews.com/local-news/abbo...shes-new-passenger-volume-record-7313015

1,275,484 (+28.5%)

Even though it's a record setting year, they lost a position in the national rankings (so far). YXE took them over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Canada#2023

Still a lot of variables at play in those ranks, with YQB and YYT yet to announced 2023 numbers.
With the dismantling of Swoop in late 2023, I imagine both YXX & YHM are poised for a tumble in 2024.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
There is always a discrepancy between StatsCan's pax numbers and the airport authorities' numbers. I was under the impression this was due to Statscan only counting terminal pax, whereas the airport authorities count FBO as well, to boost their numbers (or maybe the difference is rev vs. non rev? Not sure.)

YEG, in particular, would be dumb not to count it. All those charters to the oil sands makes a big difference in the numbers. I'm sure the others do as well, but don't have concrete proof to back that statement up.
The difference between Stats Can and the Airport Authorities is that Stats Can don’t count non-revs whereas the airports do. Never understood why StatsCan excludes them but they must have their reasons. Glad to know I’m not the only one who thinks YEG non-scheduled FBO counts are inflationary.
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  #533  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2024, 11:26 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Glad to know I’m not the only one who thinks YEG non-scheduled FBO counts are inflationary.
Even if they are inflationary, I still think it's right to count them. A passenger is a passenger. Doesn't matter what terminal building they depart/arrive from.
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  #534  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 1:02 AM
TheGreatestX TheGreatestX is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Even if they are inflationary, I still think it's right to count them. A passenger is a passenger. Doesn't matter what terminal building they depart/arrive from.
Agreed. These are still people that are flying for work. Whether they fly from the main terminal or not, what difference does it make?
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  #535  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 2:15 AM
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I’ve seen airport statistics elsewhere in the world published with two numbers - one emplaned + deplaned, and others as arriving + departing + connecting (counted once). The counted once method is usual, and probably more fair as a measure of the terminal services used, but there is an argument the other way.

A portion of YEG FBO passengers will have arrived at the terminal and departed on a mine charter, so it is arguable.

Do the YVR south terminal or YWG Perimeter Airlines terminal count in their numbers?
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  #536  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 3:35 AM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Originally Posted by Myst View Post

A portion of YEG FBO passengers will have arrived at the terminal and departed on a mine charter, so it is arguable.
It’s the same with anyone that self connects between two airlines that don’t interline. At the end of the day, there will always be double counts, but I think it’s better to count all passengers that use an airport, regardless of building used.
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  #537  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 5:45 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
It’s the same with anyone that self connects between two airlines that don’t interline. At the end of the day, there will always be double counts, but I think it’s better to count all passengers that use an airport, regardless of building used.
All connecting passengers should be counted twice as an deplaned and enplaned. They're the same as O&D pax in that regard, even if the local pax was counted a second time, hours, days, weeks or months later than their enplanement vs anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours later....in some cases, connecting pax will actually have the enplanement later than a local O&D that might have flown say YOW-YTZ-YOW on a short day trip...or someone doing a FFP mileage run.

If you only count a connecting passenger once, if they're going from one segment to another (i.e., domestic, transborder or international), how would you count them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myst View Post
I’ve seen airport statistics elsewhere in the world published with two numbers - one emplaned + deplaned, and others as arriving + departing + connecting (counted once). The counted once method is usual, and probably more fair as a measure of the terminal services used, but there is an argument the other way.

A portion of YEG FBO passengers will have arrived at the terminal and departed on a mine charter, so it is arguable.

Do the YVR south terminal or YWG Perimeter Airlines terminal count in their numbers?
The south terminal at YVR is an actual terminal, so it definitely counts, even if it only contributes about 1.5% of YVR's total pax count. Perimeter's YWG terminal I would imagine counts. The thing with FBOs, do you count the pax on a private jet, the King Air pax and crew that stop for fuel or just the mining charter pax on the likes of 5T?

The interesting thing with all of this is there's no global standard that I'm aware of from IATA, ICAO or ACI.
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  #538  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 8:18 AM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post

If you only count a connecting passenger once, if they're going from one segment to another (i.e., domestic, transborder or international), how would you count them?
According to ICAO, twice. See below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
The interesting thing with all of this is there's no global standard that I'm aware of from IATA, ICAO or ACI.
ICAO definitely covers the subject in its glossary of terms used in civil aviation statistics. Now whether airports abide by those definitions, I don't know, but I would think they do. It's far easier to count connecting passengers twice rather than once.

https://www.icao.int/dataplus_archive/Documents/20130807/GLOSSARY%20v1%202.pdf

Quote:
Passengers carried. The number of passengers carried is obtained by counting each passenger on a particular flight (with one flight number) once only and not repeatedly on each individual stage of that flight, with a single exception that a passenger flying on both the international and domestic stages of the same flight should be counted as both a domestic and an international passenger.

Direct transit traffic. Traffic which both arrives and departs the point (transits the point) as
part of a continuous movement under a single air ticket or waybill, without a stopover, on the
same or different aircraft identified by the same airline designator and flight number. Direct
transit traffic is counted only once
.

Passengers, embarked/disembarked.
Embarked passengers. Number of air carrier revenue and non-revenue passengers
whose air journey begins at the reporting airport, including the number of
disembarked passengers, other than direct transit passengers, who are continuing their
air journey.

Disembarked passengers. Number of air carrier revenue and non-revenue passengers
whose air journey terminates at the reporting airport, including the number of
passengers, other than direct transit passengers, who will continue their air journey.

Transfer traffic. Traffic connecting between aircraft identified by different airline designators
and flight numbers. Transfer traffic is counted twice: once upon arrival and once on
departure.
So basically, according to ICAO, a connecting passenger is always counted twice, with one exception.

A domestic direct transit flight.

Ex. A passenger that flies AC YYZ-YUL-YQB all with the same flight number, should be counted once at YUL. However, if someone flies AC YYZ-YUL-MXP on the same flight number, he counts twice at YUL, since there is a domestic and international leg involved.

So technically, it's not YEG's passenger numbers that are inflated. It's airports, such as YYC, who have a very high connection percentage, that have inflated numbers, as the actual number of people in the building throughout the year is lower than the passenger count (since almost all connections are double counted).

As an example, if we assume YYC has a 60% connection percentage, that means out of the ~18.5 million passengers in 2023, 11.1 million are connecting. If they are all double counted, it means only 5.55 million connecting passengers actually transited the airport. So the number of passengers that actually used the airport is closer to 12.9 million (5.55 million + (18.5- 11.1million)).

Helps partly explain why a city with a quarter of the population of Montreal has almost the same passenger number.

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Feb 7, 2024 at 8:33 AM.
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  #539  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 3:47 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
According to ICAO, twice. See below.




ICAO definitely covers the subject in its glossary of terms used in civil aviation statistics. Now whether airports abide by those definitions, I don't know, but I would think they do. It's far easier to count connecting passengers twice rather than once.

https://www.icao.int/dataplus_archive/Documents/20130807/GLOSSARY%20v1%202.pdf



So basically, according to ICAO, a connecting passenger is always counted twice, with one exception.

A domestic direct transit flight.

Ex. A passenger that flies AC YYZ-YUL-YQB all with the same flight number, should be counted once at YUL. However, if someone flies AC YYZ-YUL-MXP on the same flight number, he counts twice at YUL, since there is a domestic and international leg involved.

So technically, it's not YEG's passenger numbers that are inflated. It's airports, such as YYC, who have a very high connection percentage, that have inflated numbers, as the actual number of people in the building throughout the year is lower than the passenger count (since almost all connections are double counted).

As an example, if we assume YYC has a 60% connection percentage, that means out of the ~18.5 million passengers in 2023, 11.1 million are connecting. If they are all double counted, it means only 5.55 million connecting passengers actually transited the airport. So the number of passengers that actually used the airport is closer to 12.9 million (5.55 million + (18.5- 11.1million)).

Helps partly explain why a city with a quarter of the population of Montreal has almost the same passenger number.
Thanks. I wonder how many airports count those thru pax? Never knew that was a standard. Wonder if they're counted as enplaned or deplaned or 'transit'?
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  #540  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Helps partly explain why a city with a quarter of the population of Montreal has almost the same passenger number.
Doesn't YUL also have an incredibly high connection rate? Especially in comparison to YYC which is primarily a domestic connection airport? Or am I understanding this backwards?
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