General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[MiEncanto]

I got to go to the top floor of the old Dial Corp tower a few years ago and that provided a pretty neat view of downtown. We gotta get someone to sneak up there.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

I got to go to the top floor of the old Dial Corp tower a few years ago and that provided a pretty neat view of downtown. We gotta get someone to sneak up there.

Do we have any young adventurous forumers here? Back in about 2006ish (?) I snuck up to the penthouse of the Security Building (inside the old Playboy club) when it was totally under construction/renovation and got a bunch of cool interior pictures and a couple outside views and posted them on the forum. But I'm way beyond doing something like that again. The old modern phoenix website stole my pictures and posted them too without credit.. and didn't take them down (that I know of), but whatever.

*I'm not promoting or condoning trespassing*

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Do we have any young adventurous forumers here? Back in about 2006ish (?) I snuck up to the penthouse of the Security Building (inside the old Playboy club) when it was totally under construction/renovation and got a bunch of cool interior pictures and a couple outside views and posted them on the forum. But I'm way beyond doing something like that again. The old modern phoenix website stole my pictures and posted them too without credit.. and didn't take them down (that I know of), but whatever.

*I'm not promoting or condoning trespassing*

LOL when I was in college I made it my mission to get to the roof and basement of every building on campus and in Tempe.

Not going to reveal it all but I got very close to doing it and it was not legal or safe many times

I am not promoting trespassing

[combusean]

Any building can be walked into with some combination of a yellow safety vest, walkie talkie, clipboard, and possibly hard hat depending on the job. Often helps if you're on the phone while you enter. Park anywhere with 4 orange cones placed around your white truck.

Or if it's a government building just call and ask nice, idk.

[DoublePines]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Do we have any young adventurous forumers here? Back in about 2006ish (?) I snuck up to the penthouse of the Security Building (inside the old Playboy club) when it was totally under construction/renovation and got a bunch of cool interior pictures and a couple outside views and posted them on the forum. But I'm way beyond doing something like that again. The old modern phoenix website stole my pictures and posted them too without credit.. and didn't take them down (that I know of), but whatever.

*I'm not promoting or condoning trespassing*

I'm jealous. I'm be always wanted to see the inside of the penthouse

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by DoublePines

I'm jealous. I'm be always wanted to see the inside of the penthouse

I posted a picture thread on here back in 2004 or '05 or '06... maybe a moderator can try to find it. I tried and only found this post with a pic from on top of the penthouse I took:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4474363&postcount=54

[Obadno]

Awesome! Lets make the urban heat island worse! And Replace grass with an oil product!!!!

THIS SI SO GREEN. Meanwhile Cotton and Citrus growers still get water for pennies on the dollar. BUT YOU PLEB KILL YOUR PLANTS

https://azbigmedia.com/business/phoenix-is-offering-financial-incentive-to-remove-grass/

Will anyone stop this madness?

Phoenix is offering financial incentive to remove grass
The City of Phoenix recently announced a new financial incentive to remove non-residential grass in an effort to conserve water.

Participants in the program can receive $2 per square foot up to $250,000 per site according to the City of Phoenix website.

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Some of the groups eligible for the program include homeowners’ associations, multifamily properties and businesses who are Phoenix Water customers.

“What we’ve seen on our end is that homeowners’ associations in particular are extremely interested in this program,” said City of Phoenix Deputy Water Services Director Max Wilson.

The project requires an approval process prior to grass-removal by the City of Phoenix. The new landscape plan must include 50% coverage of drought tolerant plants, as indicated by the city, and conversion to a drip irrigation system.


“We thought it was important that if somebody’s got grass that they want to remove today and they’re willing to do it for the amount of incentive that we have available,” Wilson said.

Grass removal incentive programs are not new. The City of Scottsdale offers a residential grass removal rebate. In Las Vegas, the Southern Nevada Water Authority has a rebate program for customers that are residents and non-residents.

Wilson said the City of Phoenix officials chose the non-residential route to launch the grass removal incentive as a way to get both the city and participants “the most bang for your buck” while eliminating large stretches of grass.

Wilson added that while a plan to extend the program to residents is in the works, such a program would require “thoughtful pre and post inspections on these homes” that receive rebates.

“Essentially, cities need to carefully consider the trade-offs between a program like this (grass removal rebates), or investing in other ways to get people to reduce the amount of water they’re using on their yard,” said Sarah Porter, the director of the Kyl Center for Water Policy at Arizona State University.

She added that investments in messaging to educate homeowners can be an effective way for cities to reduce water used for landscaping.

“Phoenix is committed to leading the way in water conservation,” Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego said in a statement on the City of Phoenix website. “This new incentive program is yet another significant step we’re taking towards realizing our vision of a more resilient city.”


Phoenix has two primary sources of water. The Salt River Project brings in water from the Salt and Verde Rivers, while the Central Arizona Project brings in water from the Colorado River, according to the City of Phoenix website.

According to Porter, the new incentive program may serve as a public demonstration of Phoenix’s investment in solving the issues it faces as a part of the Colorado River Basin.

Arizona shares Colorado River water with six other basin states: California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming.

“We’re working towards figuring out as a region how we can use less Colorado River water because it’s an over-allocated, stressed river,” Porter said.

No nobody will. Guess Ill have to leave as people ruin the city

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Awesome! Lets make the urban heat island worse! And Replace grass with an oil product!!!!

THIS SI SO GREEN. Meanwhile Cotton and Citrus growers still get water for pennies on the dollar. BUT YOU PLEB KILL YOUR PLANTS

https://azbigmedia.com/business/phoenix-is-offering-financial-incentive-to-remove-grass/

Will anyone stop this madness?




No nobody will. Guess Ill have to leave as people ruin the city

A lush desert landscape and shade tress makes more sense in the desert than a lawn that is not used. Done right, looks great and saves water.

Keeps the parks green, and areas that people use.

PS. Its great the city is overseeding their parks with winter grass now. Never made sense to only have nice green bermuda in the summer when no one went to the parks. I

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Awesome! Lets make the urban heat island worse! And Replace grass with an oil product!!!!

THIS SI SO GREEN. Meanwhile Cotton and Citrus growers still get water for pennies on the dollar. BUT YOU PLEB KILL YOUR PLANTS

https://azbigmedia.com/business/phoenix-is-offering-financial-incentive-to-remove-grass/

Will anyone stop this madness?




No nobody will. Guess Ill have to leave as people ruin the city

Not to mention they contain carcinogens...but alas we must virtue signal with our progressive causes....

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

A lush desert landscape and shade tress makes more sense in the desert than a lawn that is not used. Done right, looks great and saves water.

Keeps the parks green, and areas that people use.

PS. Its great the city is overseeding their parks with winter grass now. Never made sense to only have nice green bermuda in the summer when no one went to the parks. I

The amount of water our yards and lawns use is miniscule.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

The amount of water our yards and lawns use is miniscule.

Yeah, I don't get the effort towards trying to save such little water here. Seems like a waste of resources/energy to save so little water. Agriculture takes the largest share - so we just need to come to terms with how to balance that against other needs. We can't grow at a breakneck pace endlessly - we just need to plan for reasonable growth moving forward - at the expense of swapping out agriculture use to residential as needed.

[MiEncanto]

This silly stuff is either virtue signalling or helping an industry one either gets support from or hopes to in the future.

The city could save far more water by subsidizing or giving away internet connected (and therefore, rain smart) watering meters. But that's not sexy enough, we need more hot carpet installed!

This stuff is so insane expensive it's not even a possibility for most people. And it's so damn hot, it's not good for human use.

[azcats]

Originally Posted by Obadno

The amount of water our yards and lawns use is miniscule.

My anxiety over the population growth and the direction from all of that is so strong - it overshadows this specific concern. It definitely affects the water issue. The actual highest percentage growth of Phoenix was between 1950 - 1960. In the 1940s through the 1950s - Phoenix had a beautification program to "green" the city. That is why the neighborhoods in north Central - north of Camelback are all so green. The homes in Arcadia - all built in citrus groves - I remember how they regularly would open the irrigation ditches and flood every one's yards. Phoenix grew from the folks moving from the east and mid-west. Now, California is included - and thousands coming from other countries. In my lifetime, Metro Phoenix (including Pinal County) has gone from 375,000 to over 5 million. Growing roughly 100,000 a year. That doesn't include the folks from other countries that are not counted in the census taking.

I lived in Tucson for 8 years. Water issues for Tucson has always been in the forefront. That is why you see nearly everything desert/ drought resistant landscaping.

When I lived in California, it seemed there was a drought nearly every six months - and drastic steps were implemented. From Ventura to the southern tip of Orange County - 20 million people - and, that doesn't count the folks from other countries that are not included in the census.

To save space and water, downtown Phoenix could grow like Soleri building Arcosanti.

[soled]

Originally Posted by locolife

Well you nailed how I took that photo, which is why I think it sucks and doesn’t capture the full skyline effect you get from this angle when driving into the city. I went on a few taller rides at the fair last year hoping to get a good angle but it wasn’t the right distance and angle so I ended up with obstructions.

I can’t think of any taller buildings or natural terrain in the same proximity as the stack to give a long photo opportunity. Maybe going during rush hour could work if traffic is very slow or stopped.

Especially because photography is a hobby of mine, it's interesting to me that it never occurred to me during any of those times, but I've stood on every one of those ramps, as well as the elevated I-10 stretches on traffic accidents, yet I never snapped a photo of downtown with my phone.

I'm retired now, so it's too late to make up for that mistake. Sorry, guys

[Stijl]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Awesome! Lets make the urban heat island worse! And Replace grass with an oil product!!!!

THIS SI SO GREEN. Meanwhile Cotton and Citrus growers still get water for pennies on the dollar. BUT YOU PLEB KILL YOUR PLANTS

https://azbigmedia.com/business/phoenix-is-offering-financial-incentive-to-remove-grass/

Will anyone stop this madness?

No nobody will. Guess Ill have to leave as people ruin the city

So am I missing something, artificial turf isn't mentioned once in the article or in the program publications I've seen. Looking at the Phoenix program, I'm not even sure it's eligible / encouraged at all unless you're relying on "Landscape Materials" to do some heavy lifting.

One of the most basic requirements of the program requires 50% coverage by living plants from a drought tolerant list. Again, turf isn't included in that, and honestly, I don't see non-residential users in phoenix paying for turf where they don't have to when there are cheaper alternatives... maybe if you get near Biltmore or something that might crop up for aesthetic purposes.

But this can be done well, and I hope it extends to residential though auditing that program will be a nightmare. We ripped out our grass years ago and replaced it with drought resistant trees and general landscaping on our own and covered the rest of the area with gravel because I'm lazy and have never enjoyed yard maintenance. Today on the county aerials, maybe 10% of that gravel ever sees the light of the sun with the canopy coverage we have. And we haven't missed our grass for more than maybe 10 seconds in those years.

Two things I do with Phoenix would have done before this though... One, require commercial property owners to upkeep their approved site plans. Just because a plant dies shouldn't mean they're off the hook indefinately. And two, remove Palo Verdes from the list of approved trees. If you're looking for a long term canopy solution, those aren't the right selection. By all means use them as fast growing, drought resistant feature landscaping or a quick splash of green, but they shouldn't be doing work as 'trees' when even healthy installations aren't going to last more than 10-15 years.

[azcats]

Well...growing up in the Phoenix area - we had a fully green backyard - but, outside of the backyard - was completely desert. I think we should be able to handle some green at people's homes. North Central Ave. is very pretty and green - and I think all of that helps keep the area cool(er). My home in Tucson: No grass - but, had a big Palos Verde tree - it was a very long time ago - but, I remember it giving some shade. Besides - it is the state of Arizona's state tree! The biggest concern is population growth - and handling that. Aside from zoning - not sure how you can keep people from other (states) parts of our country from pouring in. We also want a healthy local economy so, lower taxes and regulations attract people and businesses to come here. However, we can keep people from pouring into our state from other countries.

[Obadno]

I didnt know we were getting a planetarium?

Again too bad this stuff is spread around the city rather than located centrally

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2024/02/28/dark-sky-discovery-center-fountain-hills.html

[combusean]

An observatory makes far more sense at the permanent edge of the metro where there is significantly less light pollution.

There's a paywall in that article, but

https://darkskycenter.org/

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I didnt know we were getting a planetarium?

Again too bad this stuff is spread around the city rather than located centrally

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2024/02/28/dark-sky-discovery-center-fountain-hills.html

The Dorrance Planetarium in the AZ Science Center will actually be the most technology advanced in North America after its refresh is complete.

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/dorranc...echnologically-advanced-facility-in-u-s/

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I didnt know we were getting a planetarium?

Again too bad this stuff is spread around the city rather than located centrally

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2024/02/28/dark-sky-discovery-center-fountain-hills.html

Interestingly, the Arizona Science Center just announced a major renovation of its Dorrance Planetarium. I don't know if that's coincidental or a response to potential competition.