[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Would it really be that much of a challenge? We're not talking about widening it accommodate vehicles and heavy trucks, but people on foot/bikes. Not sure if it would be a both sides type of deal, one side, or even underneath. But it would sure fix a historical wrong that was imposed on the West Side when they built they replaced the ferry with a bridge that outlawed cyclists and pedestrians.

The Bridge was built at the height of car centric, commuter designed urban planning. I think we've waited long enough to address this fundamental flaw with the the Saint John Harbour Bridge.

What would be cheaper in the long run, a ferry or a pedestrian-bike path on or under the bridge? A future with both would be great for both sides of the harbour, and very much fitting for a place that proudly calls itself "The Port City".

The big question around this proposal would be allocation of resources vs usage. I live in Millidgeville and we have had bike lanes for several years (Millidge Ave/Somerset and more recently University Ave with bollards) I have yet to see an actual traffic study but I drive these routes several times a day and can state that actually seeing a cyclist using one of them stands out as an oddity. How much money and road real estate is it reasonable to dedicate to 1% of users?

"Build it and they will come" is catchy but not much of a serious answer. There needs to be far more scientific analysis done on demand and projected traffic volumes before money is spent. Maybe the correct answer to your question of "ferry or bike path under the bridge?" is "neither".

Yes, a pedestrian/cycle route on the bridge would be "nice" but I have to think it should fall far, far down the list of government spending priorities.

It occurs to me that one more realistic solution that might be tried at little sunk cost would be some sort of continuously operating shuttle across the bridge. A couple of small electric buses with bike racks running every 5-10 minutes wouldn't break the bank. If demand never developed they could be used for other purposes with little or no wasted investment.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Bob Boyce posted a pic on Facebook of the foundations going in at Steepleview.

Saw that, nice to see concrete being poured on site!

Once it pops up above grade I'll start sharing some pics from my office in Brunswick Sq, I can see the site out my window.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

The big question around this proposal would be allocation of resources vs usage. I live in Millidgeville and we have had bike lanes for several years (Millidge Ave/Somerset and more recently University Ave with bollards) I have yet to see an actual traffic study but I drive these routes several times a day and can state that actually seeing a cyclist using one of them stands out as an oddity. How much money and road real estate is it reasonable to dedicate to 1% of users?

"Build it and they will come" is catchy but not much of a serious answer. There needs to be far more scientific analysis done on demand and projected traffic volumes before money is spent. Maybe the correct answer to your question of "ferry or bike path under the bridge?" is "neither".

Yes, a pedestrian/cycle route on the bridge would be "nice" but I have to think it should fall far, far down the list of government spending priorities.

It occurs to me that one more realistic solution that might be tried at little sunk cost would be some sort of continuously operating shuttle across the bridge. A couple of small electric buses with bike racks running every 5-10 minutes wouldn't break the bank. If demand never developed they could be used for other purposes with little or no wasted investment.

Which government we talking about here? As it certainly wouldn’t be the city going at it alone here with the harbour bridge proposal. It would be a partnership with the federal government and provincial government.

Not sure how you quantify the value of something like a ferry or the walking path, but I’ll remind you that the provincial government spends an exorbitant amount of money on 5 car commuter ferries in the Saint John area and no one bats an eyelash at the cost of those ferries, and most would consider them invaluable for purposes of tourism & commuting.

The return of a harbour ferry or a harbour bridge active transportation link would be considered invaluable for purposes of tourism & active transportation. Not sure how much scientific and quantitative analysis is truly needed to see through and execute such ideas.

[sailor734]

Has anyone heard anything about the commercial space in the Wellington. I seem to recall that it was to be a coffee shop/cafe/restaurant and that they were talking to several interested parties. That was quite a few months ago and since then.......crickets.

Although, given how quiet somewhere like the City Market still is at lunchtime, I can see how opening another cafe that would be breakfast, coffee breaks and lunch dependent would be a questionable proposition.

[cdnguys]

So here is current projects for uptown:

Under construction:

- 56 Steepleview
- 39 Barrack Green Residences
- 79 Phase 1 Fundy Quay

Total: 174

Announced:

- 54 Waterloo Industrial Chic
- 108 Hospital Hill
- 598 Fundy Quay remaining phases
- 35 166 Leinster St
- 58 St. Vincent’s
- 24 (?) 1 Bayard Dr.
- 93 99 King St
- 150 Historica Queen Sq N

Total: 1,120

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

So here is current projects for uptown:

Under construction:

- 56 Steepleview
- 39 Barrack Green Residences
- 79 Phase 1 Fundy Quay

Total: 174

Announced:

- 54 Waterloo Industrial Chic
- 108 Hospital Hill
- 598 Fundy Quay remaining phases
- 35 166 Leinster St
- 58 St. Vincent’s
- 24 (?) 1 Bayard Dr.
- 93 99 King St
- 150 Historica Queen Sq N

Total: 1,120

I'd question 99 King and Queen Sq N as being pretty tentative at the moment....and Fundy Quay has a pretty slow build out as I understand it.

Not trying to be negative but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of energy and hustle to many SJ developments. Even Fundy Quay seems to be planned to move ahead at a pretty sedate pace.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'd question 99 King and Queen Sq N as being pretty tentative at the moment....and Fundy Quay has a pretty slow build out as I understand it.

Not trying to be negative but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of energy and hustle to many SJ developments. Even Fundy Quay seems to be planned to move ahead at a pretty sedate pace.

I think there will be announcement soon on 99 King. Wayne Long dropped a nugget about it and a family member that lives in the Wentworth was told Percy is actively working on it. Historica never planned to start for 2 years is my understanding

[Helladog]

Should add another storey for every year 99 King is delayed. Make it worth the wait.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Should add another storey for every year 99 King is delayed. Make it worth the wait.

Seriously, it should be 30 storeys or more!

I think it could end up being a good thing that the project fell through... 12 storeys wasn't enough. Think of what the views could be there from 13-30+ storeys up, they'd be nothing short of amazing.

Moreover, think about the possibilities if Brunswick Square beside it got built up to its 36 storey potential. Wouldn't have to worry about Brunswick Square being a dead mall anymore if there were 25 storeys of residential units on top of it.




Btw, as an aside, I saw you posted about the failed Fort Dufferin three tower condo development that fell through on a different forum way back in 2007

think you could shed some light about what happened there in the main Saint John thread? I heard it was just traffic concerns that put the kibosh on it, but another poster said it was due to erosion? Any clarification on what exactly happened there would be much appreciated. Thanks

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Seriously, it should be 30 storeys or more!

I think it could end up being a good thing that the project fell through... 12 storeys wasn't enough. Think of what the views could be there from 13-30+ storeys up, they'd be nothing short of amazing.

Moreover, think about the possibilities if Brunswick Square beside it got built up to its 36 storey potential. Wouldn't have to worry about Brunswick Square being a dead mall anymore if there were 25 storeys of residential units on top of it.




Btw, as an aside, I saw you posted about the failed Fort Dufferin three tower condo development that fell through on a different forum way back in 2007

think you could shed some light about what happened there in the main Saint John thread? I heard it was just traffic concerns that put the kibosh on it, but another poster said it was due to erosion? Any clarification on what exactly happened there would be much appreciated. Thanks

I'll weigh in and say that I my understanding at the time was that it was more of a vapourware-style proposal like the one that was approved down at Tin Can Beach. The proposal came out at the time of the brief Energy Hub speculation era when Canaport LNG was being built and the city was at its most desperate. There were a number of proposals around the city at the time, many were pretty pie-in-the-sky including this one.

I love the idea and the rendering though, what a great place for some taller residences, phenomenal views and would really help frame the harbour in the skyline.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I'll weigh in and say that I my understanding at the time was that it was more of a vapourware-style proposal like the one that was approved down at Tin Can Beach. The proposal came out at the time of the brief Energy Hub speculation era when Canaport LNG was being built and the city was at its most desperate. There were a number of proposals around the city at the time, many were pretty pie-in-the-sky including this one.

I love the idea and the rendering through, what a great place for some taller residences, phenomenal views and would really help frame the harbour in the skyline.

I’d love to see that rendering. I had a hard time finding any information on that the Fort Dufferin development at all. It’s such a spectacular location and could be done in an amazing way to preserve and showcase that amazing history there.

I don’t know why it’s considered so “pie-in-the-sky” to try and attract high rise developments at ocean-side and ocean-view locations like Fort Dufferin or the South End. Building up the skyline on both sides of the harbour front will just add to the vibrancy and seaside charm that Saint John exudes. Moreover, it will make the city and province far more interested in funding solutions to better connect people living on both sides of the harbour, especially for those who want to live more urban, less vehicle dependent lifestyles.

Big investments and growth at the port should be accompanied by big growth in ambitious residential projects on both sides of the port. I think we can all agree there’s a lot of tidying up and beautification that needs to be done in the areas adjacent to port operations on both sides of the harbour. These could be really attractive areas for apartment and condo development, but they remain quite shabby, unkempt, and desolate. There’s been some progress, but not nearly enough.

Perhaps no area has as much high rise development potential as the southern portion of the central peninsula. With substantial development, what’s currently known as “the south end” could one day be known as “Downtown Saint John”

[gtsoc]

More empty spaces in Uptown!

LIFPA DON Bon Bosco Saint John communiqué

We deeply regret to inform you that the Lycée International Français des Provinces Atlantiques – Don Bosco Saint John – will not be in Market Square, Saint John, next September.

The choice of the LIFPA was to use two of the three levels of Market Square (the former New Brunswick Museum).

Unfortunately, the total amount of work to be carried out exceeds the estimates transmitted in January 2023 by 50%. The administrators of the LIFPA must therefore abandon this project and would like to thank all the local and French partners for their support in this ambitious and meaningful project.

The LIFPA, which still wishes to open a French International school in the Atlantic Provinces, is currently studying all possibilities.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

More empty spaces in Uptown!

Yes, it appears so... https://www.country94.ca/2024/01/30/french-international-school-project-abandoned/

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Well that was a lot of praise and parading done by the province and the city only for it to fail. It's a shame I liked the idea of a school in Market Square. Well back to square 1 which is a Saint John speciality

[cdnguys]

Genesys also vacated their Market Square building. Time to reinvent itself. Hopefully the new development and Plaza will attract some attention for it. No wonder we developed some sort of syndrome for questioning whether things will happen or not. A full 80% of things announced don’t materialize.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Genesys also vacated their Market Square building. Time to reinvent itself. Hopefully the new development and Plaza will attract some attention for it. No wonder we developed some sort of syndrome for questioning whether things will happen or not. A full 80% of things announced don’t materialize.

On the topic of projects that fizzle out i am happy that the port expansion happened and we are seeing the benefits of it. I thought it might end being another promised project that was talked about and never happened like a second canaport.
The world is promised to SJ and almost none of it happens

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

More empty spaces in Uptown!

Ouch! Did somebody drop the ball on their due diligence? I can't see a 50% cost creep in just 12 months. Especially 2023 when the crazy jumps in building costs were starting to ease off.

Almost seems like there might be more to the story......

OTOH Maybe structural issues or water damage in the old Museum area of market Sq that only got discovered once they started?
Let's remember, Market Square is 40 years old and who knows if all the maintenance has been up to snuff over that time. If they've cheaped out and/or postponed fixes over the years the whole place could be in bad shape under the veneer.

In any event it adds credence to the adage "believe nothing when it comes to development in Saint John until the project is finished, occupied and operating"....... Announcements and photo ops are cheap.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Ouch! Did somebody drop the ball on their due diligence? I can't see a 50% cost creep in just 12 months. Especially 2023 when the crazy jumps in building costs were starting to ease off.

Almost seems like there might be more to the story......

OTOH Maybe structural issues or water damage in the old Museum area of market Sq that only got discovered once they started?
Let's remember, Market Square is 40 years old and who knows if all the maintenance has been up to snuff over that time. If they've cheaped out and/or postponed fixes over the years the whole place could be in bad shape under the veneer.

In any event it adds credence to the adage "believe nothing when it comes to development in Saint John until the project is finished, occupied and operating"....... Announcements and photo ops are cheap.

Take over the Genesys building and voila... the new Anglophone uptown school everyone has been waiting for! Slap down some fenced in turf on the property below the Red Rose Tea building and you'd have one of the coolest schools in Canada with an awesome new outdoor soccer field for our growing immigrant population.

[Joe]

From the TJ the spokesman for the school says:

"The decision on a new site must be made in the next two weeks, he said, noting they are committed to opening a facility in Atlantic Canada."

We want to be in l’Acadie,” he said. When asked, he said he didn’t have any information to share about potential other sites, just that it will be in Atlantic Canada."

Take from this what you will, I would say they already have a site selected.

[DyAm00394]

"A little more than a year after announcing it would be opening its doors in Saint John in 2024, officials behind an international French school now say the project will not proceed at Market Square.

The Lycée International Français des Provinces Atlantiques (LIFPA) project, which had been slated to use two of the three levels of Market Square where the New Brunswick Museum had been located, has been halted due to cost overruns, which went 50 per cent over approved estimates, Sylvain Olivier, executive director of LIFPA, told Brunswick News, noting he did not have details available on where or why the costs increased.

Initially announced in January 2023, the school was to have the capacity to enrol 900 students, of which 450 were expected to be from France. Olivier said registrations to date had included about 30 families from New Brunswick and 108 from France. All of the New Brunswick families will be reimbursed the money they’ve already paid out; the French families will be given the option to either get their money back or be registered into the school, wherever it ends up being located, he said.

Plans remain to open a school somewhere in Atlantic Canada, Olivier said, not ruling out the school could still end up calling Saint John home at another site.

The decision on a new site must be made in the next two weeks, he said, noting they are committed to opening a facility in Atlantic Canada.

“We want to be in l’Acadie,” he said. When asked, he said he didn’t have any information to share about potential other sites, just that it will be in Atlantic Canada.

Brunswick News has requested comment from The Hardman Group Limited, which owns and manages Market Square, and is awaiting a response".

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/international-french-private-school-wont-open-in-market-square