Salt Lake NHL and MLB News Thread

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by airhero

Yeah that's true. Considering the same person owns both teams he could get the costs down by operating out of one arena. I'm struggling to see how it would make sense to have two arenas.

Just chiming in, but is there any ownership team that has both an NHL and NBA franchise where the teams play in separate facilities? Owners clearly like to maximize their profits and there's so much more to be had if you can ensure twice as many event nights to capture revenue from both within the arena and the entertainment district that the owner will build around the arena. The economics of a single facility are almost impossible to argue against.

If you want to keep both franchises in SLC instead of between SLC and Provo, you had better figure out a way to get Smith a sweetheart land deal.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Just chiming in, but is there any ownership team that has both an NHL and NBA franchise where the teams play in separate facilities?

Technically yes - and I'll get it into that.

For starters, there's not a lot of owners of both NBA and NHL franchises.

That list breaks down to:

Colorado Avalanche & Denver Nuggets (Ann Walton Kroenke)
New Jersey Devils & Philadelphia 76ers (David Blitzer)
Toronto Maple Leafs & Toronto Raptors (Larry Tanenbaum)
Washington Capitals & Washington Wizards (Ted Leonsis)

Of those four - technically David Blitzer's NBA and NHL teams play in separate arenas but that's because they're entirely in separate states lol

That said, the Flyers play in the 76ers Arena.

The Avs and Nuggets share an arena.

The Maple Leafs and the Raptors share an arena.

And the Capitals and Wizards share an arena - with plans to both move out to Virginia in the coming years to share an arena.

I'll go one further: it's rare that a city with both a NBA and NHL team actually has two arenas. Both typically share, even if they aren't owned by the same person or group.

The only cities where a NBA team does not share an arena with the NHL team in the same market:

Florida Panthers / Miami Heat

Anaheim Ducks / Los Angeles Lakers/Clippers

Arizona Coyotes / Phoenix Suns

New York Islanders / New York Knicks

Minnesota Wild / Minnesota Timberwolves

Now most of these are due to practical reasons:

1. With Arizona, they can't play in the Suns' arena because, like the Delta Center, it's built for basketball.

2. They're located in different regions of the metro. Anaheim plays in Anaheim - not Los Angeles. The Kings, tho, do play in LA and share an arena with the Clippers and Lakers (tho, won't share an arena with the Clippers when they move to their new arena). It's the same with the Islanders. A two team metro (the Rangers do play at MSG, tho).

The best example of what SLC would be looking at is likely Minnesota.

The Wild do not play in Minneapolis. They play in St. Paul. Different ownership, tho than the Timberwolves.

But the best example as the Wild play in a hockey-specific arena and the Wolves is more multipurpose.

So, it can happen. But I don't buy it will happen. I think if the NHL comes to Salt Lake, Ryan Smith is going to be interested in coupling them with the Jazz in the new arena.

(and there you have it - like a lot of my posts, I took forever to get to the point and put in a lot of pointless bullshit).

[Atlas]

What even are the odds that the NHL expands anyway? MLB seems relatively likely but NHL is already at 32 and their commissioner said last year that they were not expanding soon.

And even if they were going to expand, why would they choose SLC over Houston or Atlanta?

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Atlas

What even are the odds that the NHL expands anyway? MLB seems relatively likely but NHL is already at 32 and their commissioner said last year that they were not expanding soon.

And even if they were going to expand, why would they choose SLC over Houston or Atlanta?

IF they expand, they'll take two teams because right now they conferences are in balance. It sounds like Atlanta is the likely first expansion target:

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-hockey-nhl-franchise-expansion-forsyth-county-arena

Which frankly, I don't see how the NHL can justify a third attempt into the Atlanta market because the last two teams have failed (Flames, who moved to Calgary after just eight years in Atlanta and the Thrashers, who moved to Winnipeg in 2011).

But it looks like they're going for it. So, if they choose Atlanta, they likely will look to grab another team out west to balance the league out.

Houston or Salt Lake it sounds like.

Unless the Coyotes do move to Salt Lake and then Houston gets it anyway.

But here's the thing: I think Utah is the only one mentioned who's actually applied for an expansion team.

[JaseTheAce]

Originally Posted by Atlas

What even are the odds that the NHL expands anyway? MLB seems relatively likely but NHL is already at 32 and their commissioner said last year that they were not expanding soon.

And even if they were going to expand, why would they choose SLC over Houston or Atlanta?

There have been a couple of recent NHL expansion proposals. The most recent was from a group wanting to build an arena in the Atlanta suburbs. I know in Cincinnati there is talk of a new arena and some rumors of NHL expansion there too but it's coming from just one guy.

That being said, I don't think SLC is really trying to get an expansion team for either the MLB or NHL. In the Smith Entertainment Group's release, they said that they could host an NHL team as soon as next year in the Delta Center. One year is not enough time for an expansion team. I think what will happen is the NHL will wind up moving the AZ Coyotes to SLC since the Coyotes are currently playing in the 5,000-seat ASU hockey arena. A few other NHL teams have old arenas or attendance problems and might be looking to move in a few years.

I think I've already shared my A's theory, but if they play in SLC it won't be temporary IMO.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by JaseTheAce

I think I've already shared my A's theory, but if they play in SLC it won't be temporary IMO.

There may be something to this. Looking like the Tropicana stadium plan is having all sorts of issues right now

[Atlas]

Thanks for the responses. Maybe locolife can chime in and tell us the latest on Phoenix's attempts to keep the Coyotes there. I have to imagine that people there are trying to do something.

Seems like MLB is more likely for SLC, which is a relief. Every day I am glad that Gail Miller picked the Power District as the eventual site for that.

The only wrinkle here that gives Smith an edge in the NHL conversation is the possibility of the Olympics, which he could leverage to get public money and support to get an arena built. SLC council should get on top of it and push to have that arena built at Station Center instead of The Point.

[wrendog]

This quote from Smith is encouraging:

"We do own the Delta Center, so that plays a little in our advantage, because we're going to own that either way. But we can operate in two arenas; there's definitely the ability to do that here. We're rolling. I think we've got good options there. Utah is what I would call friendly for business. I think that's what's helped us create a tech ecosystem."

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Thanks for the responses. Maybe locolife can chime in and tell us the latest on Phoenix's attempts to keep the Coyotes there. I have to imagine that people there are trying to do something.

Seems like MLB is more likely for SLC, which is a relief. Every day I am glad that Gail Miller picked the Power District as the eventual site for that.

The only wrinkle here that gives Smith an edge in the NHL conversation is the possibility of the Olympics, which he could leverage to get public money and support to get an arena built. SLC council should get on top of it and push to have that arena built at Station Center instead of The Point.

The last real news on the Yotes new arena was 12/4 where the ownership group said the new arena site location was nearing resolution. The statements made was that the site requires no vote or government action for development and is 100% privately financed. The leaked rumors believe it will be Desert Ridge area which is the heart of their season ticket holder base and what is probably the wealthiest.

If you read Ryan Smiths statement’s he says SEG is ready to host an NHL team now….. in the delta center with no real details on the “plans for a long term NHL ready arena” other than to say they’d get that done later. Why would the NHL move a team on this basis?

The Yotes owner is a very successful developer, I find it hard to bet against him getting this $2.1B development done. He has expressed no interest in selling the team.

The speculation of coyotes to relocate anywhere is always missing the fact that they’re not for sale, the owner does not want to move them, and as the 11th largest media market and as the 10th largest metro area Phoenix is very sought after.

Who knows what will happen, I live close to Mullett arena and it’s been awesome going to NHL games there. I’ll keep enjoying every game I can there for now.

[Atlas]

Thanks, yeah I suspected as much. The play seems to be for expansion.

If Atlanta and Houston get their acts together, I can't see why they would choose Utah. Smith seems to be banking on the Olympics and their readiness right now. Quebec City also seems more ready than SLC.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Thanks, yeah I suspected as much. The play seems to be for expansion.

If Atlanta and Houston get their acts together, I can't see why they would choose Utah. Smith seems to be banking on the Olympics and their readiness right now. Quebec City also seems more ready than SLC.

The relationship between the NHL commissioner and Ryan Smith is very strong. They want him as part of the club, but it’s the board of governors (owners) that will ultimately make the determination. What’s interesting is how angry the NHLPA is at the Coyotes ownership group. I would not be surprised if the recent communication has a lot to do with lighting a fire under the Coyotes group in regard to their stadium. There is only one way hockey could be in the NHL “next season” and it’s relocation. Not even solo branding Mullet stadium for the Coyotes is embarrassing.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by wrendog

This quote from Smith is encouraging:

"We do own the Delta Center, so that plays a little in our advantage, because we're going to own that either way. But we can operate in two arenas; there's definitely the ability to do that here. We're rolling. I think we've got good options there. Utah is what I would call friendly for business. I think that's what's helped us create a tech ecosystem."

I'll be real: I don't trust a thing Ryan says tbh

Hope he's not just trying to placate fans like when Larry Miller bought the Golden Eagles and promised he would not move them ... only to move 'em lol

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I'll be real: I don't trust a thing Ryan says tbh

Hope he's not just trying to placate fans like when Larry Miller bought the Golden Eagles and promised he would not move them ... only to move 'em lol

I can understand the pessimism. I'm trying to hold on to some hope.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Thanks, yeah I suspected as much. The play seems to be for expansion.

If Atlanta and Houston get their acts together, I can't see why they would choose Utah. Smith seems to be banking on the Olympics and their readiness right now. Quebec City also seems more ready than SLC.

That's what is said but who knows? I do think if the Yotes don't have a permanent solution soon they may be forced to leave. I also don't know how public they want to be about it. The plan is a private funded arena that requies no public input, so they could be keeping the NHL brass completely up to date and just not sharing anything openly.

For Meruelo to sell the team so quickly would likely mean a substantial loss given that they just bought the team and sunk of bunch into getting an arena done here. So my bet is still that it gets done but I think the clock is ticking, to what degree NHL leadership is already well aware of real progress on the development is unclear to anyone outside the team/league.

I have heard a lot of speculation that Smith could just buy the Yotes and move them, I suppose if he wants to throw out an insane number to Meruelo that could happen. Based on what I see online they're both worth about $2B, I don't think people get that rich throwing bad money at things but anything is possible?

From the Utah stand point I'd be asking the same questions I'm asking here, Ryan Smith says he'll build an arena there, as does our owner here. Where does that stand in actually happening? Funding, permitting, any votes required etc? I've been told he's super rich and will just pay for everything associated with an arena there, even the richest owners very rarely do that, so call me skeptical. I doubt the NHL moves a team to play in an NBA arena without a real plan approved/financed and possibly under construction for an NHL arena, otherwise they're in no better shape than they are here and probably even further behind the progress that has been made here.

The Olympics are a wildcard. But say that funds an arena in whole or in part along with what SEG contributes... then next there are questions about the regions ability to support so many teams. They're building a new AAA baseball park in the metro so clearly there is commitment to that but the Millers still plan to seek an MLB team. Minor league hockey is there, does that just go away if an NHL team comes to town and the Maverik has no permanent tenant? Or does area plan to retain AAA baseball, MLB, minor league hockey, NHL, the NBA, the MLS and two major colleges? With around 2.5 - 3 million people between the Provo/SLC/Ogden metro areas this feels like me trying to go by a million dollar sports car when I have no business trying to pay for that.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I'll be real: I don't trust a thing Ryan says tbh

Hope he's not just trying to placate fans like when Larry Miller bought the Golden Eagles and promised he would not move them ... only to move 'em lol

Having lived in a city with multiple pro-sports team owners who over-promise and under-deliver I'm 100% with you. It also feels like a deflection to me when news stories go from "we'll do anything to get a team here, they can play in the DC for some time and we'll get a stadium done" Then immediately transition to questions about the team name. With very few or no details around the most important part, which is where the hell will they play long term.

I check this website out from time to time to see what teams are seeking. They have a section dedicated to NHL in SLC now which should have the latest speculation on any arena funding news.

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nhl/salt-lake-city-nhl-team/

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by locolife

Having lived in a city with multiple pro-sports team owners who over-promise and under-deliver I'm 100% with you. It also feels like a deflection to me when news stories go from "we'll do anything to get a team here, they can play in the DC for some time and we'll get a stadium done" Then immediately transition to questions about the team name. With very few or no details around the most important part, which is where the hell will they play long term.

I check this website out from time to time to see what teams are seeking. They have a section dedicated to NHL in SLC now which should have the latest speculation on any arena funding news.

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nhl/salt-lake-city-nhl-team/

All very valid points but I wonder if you are underselling how bad the Coyotes situation is. I live in Arizona (did you say you did too?) and granted I am no insider but everything I’ve heard is bad. Ownership has tried a scattershot approach to finding a stadium and everyone is confused on what’s actually going to happen. Mesa? Scottsdale? I agree it FEELS more likely they stay now then after the last stadium vote, but I’m still skeptical. They owe the NHL real plans and a real timeline.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

The relationship between the NHL commissioner and Ryan Smith is very strong. They want him as part of the club, but it’s the board of governors (owners) that will ultimately make the determination. What’s interesting is how angry the NHLPA is at the Coyotes ownership group. I would not be surprised if the recent communication has a lot to do with lighting a fire under the Coyotes group in regard to their stadium. There is only one way hockey could be in the NHL “next season” and it’s relocation. Not even solo branding Mullet stadium for the Coyotes is embarrassing.

What is your meaning of solo branding? Do you think ASU should change every permanent sign to Coyotes when they play? Or do you want them to pull up the ice and change logos between every game? Which by the way, can happen within hours of each other.

When you're in the building you know if you're at an ASU or Coyotes game. All of the digital media every new arena has makes that very easy.

I'll reiterate that the Mullet hockey experience is great. I'll be happy if/when they open a new NHL stadium but I will definitely miss when the played at ASU's stadium. It's like going to see your favorite band at a 5K seat venue instead of the Delta Center. And it's also brand new, with perfect sight lines, minimal bathroom/concession waits, and no upper level sections.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

All very valid points but I wonder if you are underselling how bad the Coyotes situation is. I live in Arizona (did you say you did too?) and granted I am no insider but everything I’ve heard is bad. Ownership has tried a scattershot approach to finding a stadium and everyone is confused on what’s actually going to happen. Mesa? Scottsdale? I agree it FEELS more likely they stay now then after the last stadium vote, but I’m still skeptical. They owe the NHL real plans and a real timeline.

I live in Tempe. I'm not an insider either but I'm pretty into valley sports and listen to the local sports station most days, there are some decent Yotes Insiders like Craig Morgan on PHNX sports, his last post on the topic is below.

Definitely not trying to sell it in any way, just sharing the facts from team ownership as opposed to outside speculation. And also to level-set a bit over some basic details, one being the team isn't for sale and to date no official action or timeline to move the team has occurred. Going to a smaller market that also has no arena plan does not pass the common sense test to me. If you want to get real crazy with speculation, Isbhia could just buy the Yotes and they play at Foot Print Center sharing it with the Suns. That would be the situation as Ryan Smith is presenting in Utah at this point. But as I said we have no reason to even think the current owner is willing to sell.

At this time the arena search could be bad or it could be just fine, more transparency would be great but what transparency do any other arena developments have? Look at the Vegas situation with the A's stadium, given the lack of Nevada government funding approval nobody knows what the plan is there now, nobody knows what kind of clock they're working on, and there is no clear plan at the moment. Sound familiar?

I was here through the last NHL arena (they tried to build at the Los Arcos site before they went to Glendale), the Cards stadium (tried for Mesa and Tempe before Glendale) and even the Suns remodel (passed but was still full of drama). This is how these always go... Nationally, all of these developments are looking for kick backs of some sort, SLC will be no different once the details come out in due time. I also work in an industry that develops sites in the range of $1 Billion. It's not easy, it's not fast, challenges come around every corner, and we all know the development market is hitting many roadblocks right now. I have no idea what will happen. But here's the only real info we know.

- The Tempe vote failed last summer, the team wanted money to pay for cleaning up the landfill the site sat on.
- Shortly thereafter the ownership announced that they'd pursue alternatives in Phoenix that do not require any vote or public financing.
- Like any developer they're looking at multiple sites and even signed an LOI on land in NW Mesa.
- Going public with a site information isn't needed has the potential to cause PR damage so they won't do that, since no public vote is needed there is not going to be a PR campaign on the new site.
- Ownership and the league recently mentioned Q1 2024 on dates to have a resolution in place. I'm not sure what you feel everyone is confused about. I'm not painting any picture other than stating the known facts.

Everything else is rumors and speculation, mostly from outside sources. We don't know what the NHL has been told regarding the search but we're 1-month into Q1 2024, hopefully we know more in 8 weeks one way or another.

https://gophnx.com/new-arena-site-offers-meruelo-coyotes-last-chance/

[bob rulz]

Honestly I think Utah getting an NHL team is still a HUGE maybe. Ryan Smith might want to make it happen, but from the outside it doesn't seem like the NHL is all that interested. I think the MLB is much more likely, there's a real proposal in place and a greater interest in expanding from the league. I'm not too worried about an NHL proposal pulling the Jazz away from downtown in the next 5 years. Now 10-15 years down the road, that's a different story.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Honestly I think Utah getting an NHL team is still a HUGE maybe. Ryan Smith might want to make it happen, but from the outside it doesn't seem like the NHL is all that interested. I think the MLB is much more likely, there's a real proposal in place and a greater interest in expanding from the league. I'm not too worried about an NHL proposal pulling the Jazz away from downtown in the next 5 years. Now 10-15 years down the road, that's a different story.

You always have to go back to the money, is the Utah MLB stadium/ development fully funded or not? I can't tell from what I read and I'm not very well connected with Utah sports. I have no idea who the insiders are up there. Will they go ask the state for money like the A's did in Vegas? Will it pass there as it didn't in Nevada?