General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa]

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

If those are numbers are correct, then on-street parking should be completely gone on Bank. No need for it when we need space for the other items you mentioned, such as wider sidewalks, cycling or transit facilities. There's also numerous cases that show cycling facilities on commercial streets are better for businesses than on-street parking.

Agreed. The Glebe is a bit unique in that it has big events that skew parking needs, but the numbers that the City gave suggested that even during events there is still parking to be had. In particular the Second Avenue garage is almost never full, and it is smack in the middle of the neighbourhood, so it should be relatively simple to shift street parking there and make better use of the space on Bank St.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed. The Glebe is a bit unique in that it has big events that skew parking needs, but the numbers that the City gave suggested that even during events there is still parking to be had. In particular the Second Avenue garage is almost never full, and it is smack in the middle of the neighbourhood, so it should be relatively simple to shift street parking there and make better use of the space on Bank St.

I have seen it full on event nights, even Civic Centre events. That said, improved transit would go a long way in reducing the need for parking. I for sure would take transit if I could jump on the train and know that I'll be able to catch a bus on Bank within a reasonable amount of time.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I have seen it full on event nights, even Civic Centre events. That said, improved transit would go a long way in reducing the need for parking. I for sure would take transit if I could jump on the train and know that I'll be able to catch a bus on Bank within a reasonable amount of time.

Yup, I actually have my fingers crossed they go with transit facilities over cycling here, although I'll be shocked to see that happen.

There is the framework for good N-S cycling facilities already on O'Connor and Percy, so if you can tie those into the new bike infrastructure on the Bank Street bridge you're in a good spot. The width is there between the bridge and Holmwood to accommodate all modes, then north of Holmwood pivot to transit / traffic lanes.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by shelltime

Bye bye on street parking on Bank st in the Glebe.

https://engage.ottawa.ca/bank-street-active-transportation-and-transit-priority-feasibility-study

Also: bye-bye any illusion of better transit service on Bank Street.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Didn't the GCA & Menard advocate against Lansdowne due to the Lack of Transit...Wonder, if that means they will be Vocally supporting the removal of parking on bank for use as bus lanes?

Also, Yes the parking all along Bank in both the Glebe, & Old Ottawa South should have been turned into Transit lanes....Instead Menard and Company has basically made transit worse and worse on bank.

About 85% of the purpose of converting more of our main street space to "active" use is to physically preclude any silly notions related to improving transit (i.e. bus service.)

Bike bros hate buses.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And Menard has gone head to head with the BIA on removing street parking, so I'm fairly confident Menard would support removing parking for bus lanes even in the face of the BIA's opposition.

Would Menard support getting rid of parking? Yes.

Would he support bus lanes? Lol no.

[J.OT13]

Better bike facilities are certainly important, but we often neglect transit in the process. Montreal Road, for example.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I have seen it full on event nights, even Civic Centre events. That said, improved transit would go a long way in reducing the need for parking. I for sure would take transit if I could jump on the train and know that I'll be able to catch a bus on Bank within a reasonable amount of time.

*Catching* the bus isn't the problem with Bank Street transit. It's the fact that the buses, all too often, stop moving at any kind of speed that offers an advantage over just walking that is the problem, and one that is not going to be fixed, and will likely be made worse, if we just turn over the parking lane to bike bros.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

*Catching* the bus isn't the problem with Bank Street transit. It's the fact that the buses, all too often, stop moving at any kind of speed that offers an advantage over just walking that is the problem, and one that is not going to be fixed, and will likely be made worse, if we just turn over the parking lane to bike bros.

I get the cynicism, but the consultation documents had various potential configurations, most of which had bus lanes. I'm not sure that I am sold on full time curbside bus lanes as being ideal on that stretch. Transit priority measures, like the ones talked about a decade ago, might be a good compromise.

I would suggest that talking up cyclists as your primary opposition is not super helpful to the cause of better transit. You are ignoring drivers and the BIA and any number of other groups that pose bigger challenges.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I have seen it full on event nights, even Civic Centre events. That said, improved transit would go a long way in reducing the need for parking. I for sure would take transit if I could jump on the train and know that I'll be able to catch a bus on Bank within a reasonable amount of time.

I'm sure it happens, but I'm in that garage several times a week and nearly 100% of the time you can get a spot on the first level. Parking capacity in the Glebe is just fine.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

I would suggest that talking up cyclists as your primary opposition is not super helpful to the cause of better transit. You are ignoring drivers and the BIA and any number of other groups that pose bigger challenges.

Except that every time we have rebuilt an urban Ottawa main street this century, we have compromised and skimped on any potential bus service improvement to satisfy bike demands, and often made things even worse for bus riders.

North-south bike connectivity through the Glebe and Centretown should be focused on the streets parallel to Bank. Bank needs transit priority, lots of it, and soon, and any bike plan that takes away from that is a bad bike plan. Bank Street is the only north-south route that can do transit in the city centre.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Except that every time we have rebuilt an urban Ottawa main street this century, we have compromised and skimped on any potential bus service improvement to satisfy bike demands, and often made things even worse for bus riders.

North-south bike connectivity through the Glebe and Centretown should be focused on the streets parallel to Bank. Bank needs transit priority, lots of it, and soon, and any bike plan that takes away from that is a bad bike plan. Bank Street is the only north-south route that can do transit in the city centre.

Sure, but I think mainstreets are always going to require compromise. Maybe you are right that we've gotten the balance wrong, but to suggest that bike demands are the only culprit, given all of the interests at play when a street is rebuilt, is more than a bit misleading.

I would make a distinction between rapid transit and local transit. Bank St. is the wrong choice for rapid transit from points south to downtown (at least above ground), because it is the centre of all sorts of competing interests. Curbside bus lanes with fast express buses are pretty incompatible with the shopping street that currently exists, and the desire for more patios and pedestrian space that make a people place. For me, Bank should be focused on frequent local transit with signal priority. For rapid transit, Bronson and the QED/Colonel By are the better options.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

I would make a distinction between rapid transit and local transit. Bank St. is the wrong choice for rapid transit from points south to downtown (at least above ground), because it is the centre of all sorts of competing interests. Curbside bus lanes with fast express buses are pretty incompatible with the shopping street that currently exists, and the desire for more patios and pedestrian space that make a people place. For me, Bank should be focused on frequent local transit with signal priority. For rapid transit, Bronson and the QED/Colonel By are the better options.

All of the old urban main streets of Ottawa need transit priority measures, better amenities (shelter, in particular), and frequency.

Bank Street won't be rapid transit, no, but its mass certainly stands to be increased and improved upon, especially given the stubborn refusal on the part of too many involved to even consider the QED for regular, or even special, transit uses. Besides Snobus.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

*Catching* the bus isn't the problem with Bank Street transit. It's the fact that the buses, all too often, stop moving at any kind of speed that offers an advantage over just walking that is the problem, and one that is not going to be fixed, and will likely be made worse, if we just turn over the parking lane to bike bros.

Well yeah. Transit has to be frequent, fast and not ridiculously packed. That's the only way I'd take the bus from the Confederation Line to go to the Glebe. Not expecting subway fast, but faster than a car.

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm sure it happens, but I'm in that garage several times a week and nearly 100% of the time you can get a spot on the first level. Parking capacity in the Glebe is just fine.

For sure, outside events, the parking garage is nearly empty.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by phil235

Menard wasn’t the councillor when Lansdowne was being debated. That was Clive Doucet. The advocacy against the plan was lead by a different group, the “Friends of Lansdowne”. There was crossover for sure, but not the GCA.

How exactly has Menard made transit worse on Bank? I remember him securing additional trips on the 6 and 7 off peak, but that is pretty much it.

Lansdowne 2.0 exists, and he very much has advocated against it.

And as for making things worse, the changes to the Bank st Bridge, which thankfully Staff pulled him back from his original plan of going to just 2 lanes. Nvm, just general advocacy that has resulted in loss of space for bus lanes.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

About 85% of the purpose of converting more of our main street space to "active" use is to physically preclude any silly notions related to improving transit (i.e. bus service.)

Bike bros hate buses.

In Ottawa it very much seems to be the case at times.

Priority, Freight access, Bus lanes, Sidewalks, then Bus lanes, Street trees, and then if space is left over Maybe an extra personal vehicle lane each direction

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Lansdowne 2.0 exists, and he very much has advocated against it.

And as for making things worse, the changes to the Bank st Bridge, which thankfully Staff pulled him back from his original plan of going to just 2 lanes. Nvm, just general advocacy that has resulted in loss of space for bus lanes.

That’s true. On the Bank St. bridge, there were always a minimum of three lanes in the plan, as the second NB lane is needed to line up buses for events at Lansdowne. Personally I like what he did on the bridge. It is always really busy with pedestrians, and now it’s way safer and more comfortable.

[acottawa]

Not sure where this goes, the latest discussions seem to be on closed threads.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-federal-court-1.7091891

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Not sure where this goes, the latest discussions seem to be on closed threads.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-federal-court-1.7091891

I think we decided that this isn't a topic of conversation that we want to have on SSP. There are other forums for this.

[shelltime]

I would hope Bank St businesses would survive with less or no on-street parking. When Beechwood got bike lanes and the parking was removed it hurt, same with Montreal road.

Also, City is coming out with a model of the city and looks like proposed projects will be included. Would be awesome if it was made available to the public:

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=164217