Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[Lexus]

Not sure how you defined essential and nonessential, had to go to Coquitlam this morning and give my mother a ride, who came here as refugee from Ukraine almost 2 years ago, a ride to work, because there was absolutely no other way for her to get to work, unless you expect her to take Uber each time…
I guess it’s easy to call it non-essential, if you own a vehicle…

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by chowhou

It's worth noting that Local 113 (the TTC union) agreed to run Wheel-Trans (similar to HandyDART) as an essential service, so that precedent is there.

HandyDART is running regular schedule today (although that's also because it's operated by a different company under a different contract)

Originally Posted by madog222

I find what CUPE 7000 did in their message to members and subsequent statements to the press to be very amateur hour to put it lightly. Either they don't know the laws or they were aware they couldn't picket and were attempting to cause public confusion.

CUPE 7000's messaging was basically that they wouldn't cross a picket line, right?

Currently, CUPE 4500 does not have the right to picket SkyTrain or other non-CMBC facilities, but they applied to the Labour Relations Board for permission to do so. If the LRB rules in their favour, and they opted to picket around SkyTrain, then CUPE 7000 workers would not be expected to cross that picket line.

[GMD]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's dangerous to rush to judgement based on a headline number. I, for one, don't know how long they've been at their current salary and whether or not that salary is commensurate with the kinds of duties they perform.

Yes, this is exactly correct. Reasoning by soundbite is rarely a good plan.

[GMD]

Originally Posted by GMD

Yes, this is exactly correct. Reasoning by soundbite is rarely a good plan.

Having said that, the ask does seem high to me, and the union hasn't really put out much in the way of supporting background or context to support it, so I can see Coast Mountain's side of the dispute.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by GMD

Having said that, the ask does seem high to me, and the union hasn't really put out much in the way of supporting background or context to support it, so I can see Coast Mountain's side of the dispute.

The union said the pay rise is a rounding error on the Translink annual budget so it's no problem.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The union said the pay rise is a rounding error on the Translink annual budget so it's no problem.

My taxes are a rounding error in the CRA bank account, I'd like to not pay them this year, TYVM!

[ilikeredheads]

asking for 25% increase over 3 years given the current state of the economy is pretty out of touch XD

[idunno]

I guess giving 25% to one small bus supervisor union might translate to the much bigger ones asking for similar (I heard the bus/Skytrain unions got similar to the 13% that the supervisors are being offered currently).

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by idunno

I guess giving 25% to one small bus supervisor union might translate to the much bigger ones asking for similar (I heard the bus/Skytrain unions got similar to the 13% that the supervisors are being offered currently).

Unifor 111/2200 actually got 11.25% to 12.5% over three years in their negotiations last year, so the 13.5% to 24.5% offered by CMBC is a huge boost on top of that.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Currently, CUPE 4500 does not have the right to picket SkyTrain or other non-CMBC facilities, but they applied to the Labour Relations Board for permission to do so. If the LRB rules in their favour, and they opted to picket around SkyTrain, then CUPE 7000 workers would not be expected to cross that picket line.

Thankfully that doesn't look like it's going to be happening

The Labour Board decided not to hold a hearing regarding CUPE 4500’s application to picket TransLink, BC Rapid Transit Company, West Coast Express and Protrans, operator of the Canada Line, which would stop all service on those transit systems.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Not sure how you defined essential and nonessential

There's a spectrum of necessity for public services, ranging from low impact such as libraries and parks to high impact such as emergency health services. Reasonable people can disagree on exactly where to draw the line on that spectrum.

Back in the great 2-month bus strike of 2001 the folks where I worked organized ad hoc car pools. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[cganuelas1995]

So would the surge pricing due to increased demand caused by transit users flocking towards uber and lyft be considered price gouging?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

So would the surge pricing due to increased demand caused by transit users flocking towards uber and lyft be considered price gouging?

Some might consider it that. But I think it works to apportion demand according to need. If we assume that there is more demand than supply of ride share cars, then some people are going to go without rides. With surge pricing in effect, prices rise to throttle demand, and someone who needs a ride urgently enough to justify the cost will be able to find one.

Yeah, it's a form of economic discrimination because those who can't afford it may loose access to the service. But they'd loose access anyway if prices remained low and that resulted in all of the cars getting scooped up so that none were available.

[jollyburger]

It would only be price gouging if they added the policy specifically to respond to make more money during the transit strike.

[WarrenC12]

The whole idea of surge pricing is to get more drivers out there helping to solve the supply problem.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by GMD

Having said that, the ask does seem high to me, and the union hasn't really put out much in the way of supporting background or context to support it, so I can see Coast Mountain's side of the dispute.

They've said that they've asked for the increase to bring their wages up to the same levels as other unionized employees in CMBC/TransLink that do similar work.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Some might consider it that. But I think it works to apportion demand according to need. If we assume that there is more demand than supply of ride share cars, then some people are going to go without rides. With surge pricing in effect, prices rise to throttle demand, and someone who needs a ride urgently enough to justify the cost will be able to find one.

Yeah, it's a form of economic discrimination because those who can't afford it may loose access to the service. But they'd loose access anyway if prices remained low and that resulted in all of the cars getting scooped up so that none were available.

"Price gouging" is just another name for "supply and demand adjusted prices faster than I like!"

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

There's a spectrum of necessity for public services, ranging from low impact such as libraries and parks to high impact such as emergency health services. Reasonable people can disagree on exactly where to draw the line on that spectrum.

Back in the great 2-month bus strike of 2001 the folks where I worked organized ad hoc car pools. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Yeah. For me it’s 50/50. I’m leaning more towards for supporting workers and their right to have a decent salary in this (Lately) screwed up country.

[Jimbo604]

Transit goes on strike and you ask, "City Hall, you heavily encouraged me to take the bus, so I did just that. Now the buses are on strike, how am I going to get to work/school/etc. ? Will you help me?"

City Hall: "Good luck with that!"

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Transit goes on strike and you ask, "City Hall, you heavily encouraged me to take the bus, so I did just that. Now the buses are on strike, how am I going to get to work/school/etc. ? Will you help me?"

City Hall: "Good luck with that!"

Yes, unfortunately this strike is probably going to set back public opinion on the reliability of public transport for a little while. (But maybe it will boost public willingness to fund Skytrain expansion? After all the busses are down but Skytrain, the driverless system, is still running!)