Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[madog222]

CMBC supervisors are set to strike for 48 hours starting Monday at 3am. Expect all bus and Seabus service to be cancelled.

[Mac Write]

During Expo 86 through 89 they had the temp platform extensions which aren't constructed. very easy to install and remove.

[madog222]

It has been explained that both platforms need to be used.

[ClaytonA]

Interesting perspective of transit/road (multi-modal) impacts from the Northridge Earthquake in 1994;

https://thesource.metro.net/2024/01/17/why-the-northridge-quake-was-a-defining-moment-for-transit/

For a region with major roads over waterways (bridges) and a lot of aerial transit, what options could be used should they be closed for months? Yes some of our bridges are pretty new and likely built to higher seismic standards. As a though exercise, more seabus routes to the north shore? There's a number of wharves around Burrard Inlet.
Accelerated BRT with dedicated lanes should skytrain have issues? Even more info/how to articles on bicycle commuting?

I've read analysis of the 2010 Olympic's affects on transportation that were pushes to capital expenditures and op ex. Other than Skytrain expansion/buy in, was there things done after Expo 86 that boosted transportation and transit specifically?

[whatnext]

What a scam, how exactly does a bus supervisor strike lead to a Skytrain shutdown? Also curious how many forumers are expecting a 25% wage increase over three years?

SkyTrain operations in Metro Vancouver are now also predicted to be affected if a transit strike occurs on Monday morning.

According to a release by CUPE 7000, the union that represents workers on the SkyTrain Expo and Millenium lines, all SkyTrain services could be affected if transit supervisors represented by CUPE 4500 can’t reach a deal with the Coast Mountain Bus Company (CMBC) on Sunday.

“Our friends at CUPE 4500, transit supervisors at Coast Mountain Bus Company, are getting ready to walk out Monday morning,” the union wrote.….

…. On Friday, CMBC spokesperson Mike Killeen said the union should come back with a more realistic wage offer, since it’s asking for nearly double the increase other CMBC unions have already agreed to.

Right now, a transit supervisor makes about $92,400 a year, and they’re asking to be brought up to $115,400 in three years — a 25 per cent increase — according to CMBC……

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/21/skytrain-transit-strike-halt/

[madog222]

We expect SkyTrain (Expo, Canada Line, and Millennium Line) and West Coast Express to operate as normal tomorrow.

At this time, CUPE Local 4500 can only legally picket bus and SeaBus.

https://twitter.com/TransLinkNews/status/1749234875587268839

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i wish i could get a 25% raise/3yrs. does seem excessive. but i do wonder about these government jobs and the pay.

younger people dont really care about things like pensions, etc. like the older ones did. theyd rather have more $$$ upfront over a pension. so if they want to compete and get/retain people, they need to be competitive with jobs that dont have pensions, etc. hard to do.

[dpogue]

Allegedly the 25% increase being requested is to bring the bus operator supervisor salaries in line with SkyTrain field supervisor salaries. But salary is just one of the aspects of the negotiations, another big one is staffing levels. Right now, there are times where there is a single road supervisor on shift for an entire bus depot worth of routes.

Regarding SkyTrain: SkyTrain staff are not going on strike, but CUPE 4500 has applied to the Labour Relations Board claiming that TransLink and BCRTC are working to undercut the impact of their strike action, and requesting permission to picket around SkyTrain facilities (Hence TransLink's mention that as of right now, they can only legally picket at CMBC facilities). SkyTrain staff will not cross a picket line if there is one in place.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i wish i could get a 25% raise/3yrs. does seem excessive. but i do wonder about these government jobs and the pay.

On a not really related note, everyone on Ministry assistance (employable, single parents and disability clients) don't even get an annual cost of living increase. The government increases the rates around once a decade when it's pointed out to them that the rates are way too low. Meanwhile how much people get paid for doing government jobs...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i wish i could get a 25% raise/3yrs. does seem excessive.

It's dangerous to rush to judgement based on a headline number. I, for one, don't know how long they've been at their current salary and whether or not that salary is commensurate with the kinds of duties they perform.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's dangerous to rush to judgement based on a headline number. I, for one, don't know how long they've been at their current salary and whether or not that salary is commensurate with the kinds of duties they perform.

Is anybody able to actually outline what duties they do perform?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's dangerous to rush to judgement based on a headline number. I, for one, don't know how long they've been at their current salary and whether or not that salary is commensurate with the kinds of duties they perform.

Take this with a grain of salt, I read somewhere that their contract expired last year, so they've been stuck at their current salary for a year I would guess (I assume all contracts tend to have yearly increases).

DailyHive has a breakdown of the demands vs the offer:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-cupe-bus-seabus-strike-negotiations

Transit Supervisor:
Existing salary (not including overtime): $92,415
CMBC offer (after three years): $104,886 (+13.5%)
Union demand (after three years): $115,477 (+25%)
T-Comm Supervisor:
Existing salary (not including overtime): $96,398
CMBC offer (after three years): $109,385 (+13.5%)
Union demand (after three years): $115,477 (+20%)
Shift Service Supervisor:
Existing salary (not including overtime): $88,437
CMBC offer (after three years): $100,392 (+13.5%)
Union demand (after three years): $106,483 (+20.5%)
Supervisor of Mechanics:
Existing salary (not including overtime): $113,799
CMBC offer (after three years): $141,606 (+24.5%)
Union demand (after three years): $141,606 (+25%)
Other trades supervisors:
Existing salary (not including overtime): $113,799
CMBC offer (after three years): $130,754 (+15%)
Union demand (after three years): $141,606 (+25%)

It feels like a big ask to me, personally.

I was speaking to a friend a few days ago and they raised a very interesting point: Firstly, there is a huge societal push for public transit to be a viable or preferred mode of transportation for people. Many people already depend on public transit as the only mode of transpotation for their commute. Secondly, right now there is legislation that "essential workers" must maintain minimum service levels even when on strike because otherwise we consider the strike to be a threat to the health and safety of the general population. I'm personally hesitant to classify transit workers as "essential workers", but if nurses or EMTs or firefighters are en masse prevented from getting to work because they now depend on transit to get to work, at what point are transit strikes endangering the public?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's dangerous to rush to judgement based on a headline number. I, for one, don't know how long they've been at their current salary and whether or not that salary is commensurate with the kinds of duties they perform.

being union, i would assume they get annual increases. thats normal. i would also expect them to get back-pay based on their contract expiring at the end of 2022.

for comparison, cupe 15 (CoV inside workers) also went 1 year without a contract and they signed for 8.5%/2yrs. + 3.5% one time payment for 2022. so not a wage increase. they also got a 1% one time payment for part of their 2023 earnings.

so based on that, 25% seems like a lot... thats my comparison.

Originally Posted by chowhou

I'm personally hesitant to classify transit workers as "essential workers", but if nurses or EMTs or firefighters are en masse prevented from getting to work because they now depend on transit to get to work, at what point are transit strikes endangering the public?

they arent. transit is not, and should never be, an essential service.

declaring them that, takes away the rights of workers to fight for wages, and is a detriment to the fair bargaining process. its just another way corporations/governments use politics to screw over workers.

there are very, very few essential services.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

they arent. transit is not, and should never be, an essential service.

declaring them that, takes away the rights of workers to fight for wages, and is a detriment to the fair bargaining process. its just another way corporations/governments use politics to screw over workers.

there are very, very few essential services.

You and I both agree that it's okay that some jobs are deemed essential services, the only question is where the line is drawn. Sometimes workers cannot have the right to cause imminent danger to the public, I'm personally okay with that. It's something to think about.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by chowhou

You and I both agree that it's okay that some jobs are deemed essential services, the only question is where the line is drawn. Sometimes workers cannot have the right to cause imminent danger to the public, I'm personally okay with that. It's something to think about.

Transit workers are not an essential service, as ruled by the Ontario Superior Court of Justice when Ontario tried to declare TTC workers an essential service: ATU v. Ontario decision

[124] [...] affirms that the right to strike may only be restricted in three circumstances,
(a) in the event of an acute national emergency and for a limited time,
(b) in the public service only for public servants exercising authority in the name of the State, and
(c) essential services in the strict sense of the term, namely those services whose withdrawal would endanger the life, personal safety or health of the whole or part of the population.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Transit workers are not an essential service, as ruled by the Ontario Superior Court of Justice when Ontario tried to declare TTC workers an essential service: ATU v. Ontario decision

But there's the notwithstanding clause?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Transit workers are not an essential service, as ruled by the Ontario Superior Court of Justice when Ontario tried to declare TTC workers an essential service: ATU v. Ontario decision

Do rulings in Ontario's Superior Court hold in British Columbia?

[madog222]

I find what CUPE 7000 did in their message to members and subsequent statements to the press to be very amateur hour to put it lightly. Either they don't know the laws or they were aware they couldn't picket and were attempting to cause public confusion.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Do rulings in Ontario's Superior Court hold in British Columbia?

There are rules as to what cases a judge has to “follow”. Judges of the BC Supreme Court have to follow decisions of the BC Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada. Judges of the BC Supreme Court are expected to follow other decisions of the BC Supreme Court unless there is very good reason not to.

The BC Supreme Court does not have to follow decisions of courts from other provinces, the BC Provincial Court, nor tribunals like the Civil Resolution Tribunal. However, Supreme Court judges may find these decisions convincing and follow that case law.

https://supremecourtbc.ca/family-law/getting-started/legal-research/case-law

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Transit workers are not an essential service, as ruled by the Ontario Superior Court of Justice when Ontario tried to declare TTC workers an essential service: ATU v. Ontario decision

It's worth noting that Local 113 (the TTC union) agreed to run Wheel-Trans (similar to HandyDART) as an essential service, so that precedent is there.

[22] In October 2008, the City Executive Committee and City Council defeated a motion to ask the province to designate the TTC as an essential service. The motion was defeated by one vote. City Council recommended asking the province to make Wheel-Trans an essential service. An agreement was reached between the TTC and its unions that Wheel-Trans will continue to operate in the event of a strike for dialysis patients.