Great Lakes Cities - Page 228

eschaton · #**4541** Posted **Jan 18, 2024, 7:00 PM**

Given the number of stone quarries across the Midwest, it's kind of surprising there's no one place where stone ended up dominating the built vernacular, such as it does in say Aberdeen, Scotland.

I know a major portion of this just comes down to a combination of rapid growth, and wood being plentiful/cheap. Though even in areas like the Great Plains where wood was relatively rare, it still dominated the built vernacular of the Midwest (except in the oldest, brickiest areas).

Steely Dan · #**4542** Posted **Jan 18, 2024, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton

Given the number of stone quarries across the Midwest, it's kind of surprising there's no one place where stone ended up dominating the built vernacular, such as it does in say Aberdeen, Scotland.

Common brick made locally, combined with face brick largely imported from st. Louis, was far less expensive than quarried limestone, which is why chicago's residential vernacular is dominated by brick, not stone, though there is a healthy amount of limestone faced stuff around town too.

Source: https://www.wbez.org/stories/saving-grey...ing/3f8037b6-3d37-4df8-bdac-2d9696029580

The North One · #**4543** Posted **Jan 18, 2024, 7:45 PM**

The Chicago fire really is such a shame. The city would have much better peak downtown urbanism if it never happened.

iheartthed · #**4544** Posted **Jan 18, 2024, 7:56 PM**

This is a photo of Jefferson Avenue in Detroit around 1860, per the Flickr account where it's uploaded:

source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thanatosdotnet/3908020107/in/photostream/

hipster duck · #**4545** Posted **Jan 18, 2024, 9:54 PM**

I don't know if these are the oldest photos of Toronto, but photographers took a series of photos on top of a hotel located at King and York streets in 1856 that, if you stitch it together, forms a 360 degree panorama.

A selection of the photos:

Looking north along York toward Osgoode Hall

Looking south to the Grand Trunk railroad along the then shore of Lake Ontario (Union Station is here today).

Looking east along King. St. Lawrence Hall and a spireless St. James cathedral are in the background.

MonkeyRonin · #**4546** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 12:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I don't know if these are the oldest photos of Toronto, but photographers took a series of photos on top of a hotel located at King and York streets in 1856 that, if you stitch it together, forms a 360 degree panorama.

I've heard those referred to as the oldest known photos of Toronto - along with a few others as part of the same compilation: https://www.blogto.com/city/2016/11/the_earliest_known_photographs_of_toronto/. They were all taken to be included in the city's (failed) bid to be chosen as Canada's capital. Either way, the city's odd mix of frontiersy wild west & Georgian British styles are almost unrecognizable today.

mrnyc · #**4547** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 1:19 AM**

speaking of glacial formation of the great lakes and limestone, check out the newly rebuilt and not quite completed yet cleveland museum of natural history — the building has a glacier motif — and the snow really brings it out —

from today — all via Pleco

Klippenstein · #**4548** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 1:31 AM**

^ very cool museum

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I've heard those referred to as the oldest known photos of Toronto - along with a few others as part of the same compilation: https://www.blogto.com/city/2016/11/the_earliest_known_photographs_of_toronto/. They were all taken to be included in the city's (failed) bid to be chosen as Canada's capital. Either way, the city's odd mix of frontiersy wild west & Georgian British styles are almost unrecognizable today.

Are any of the buildings in those pictures still standing?

Innsertnamehere · #**4549** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 1:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

^ very cool museum

Are any of the buildings in those pictures still standing?

Not many. Osgoode Hall is though, which is one of the most prominent buildings in the photos - it's been modified and multiple additions have occurred, but the two original wings remain visible:

https://www.withdrawmycharges.com/post/o...y-of-upper-canada-law-society-of-ontario

You can also barely make out the St James Cathedral from before it had it's spire - it would have been more or less brand new in this photo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_Church_of_St._James_(Toronto)

creamcityleo79 · #**4550** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 3:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton

Given the number of stone quarries across the Midwest, it's kind of surprising there's no one place where stone ended up dominating the built vernacular, such as it does in say Aberdeen, Scotland.

I know a major portion of this just comes down to a combination of rapid growth, and wood being plentiful/cheap. Though even in areas like the Great Plains where wood was relatively rare, it still dominated the built vernacular of the Midwest (except in the oldest, brickiest areas).

I don't know if it dominated the built vernacular of the area; but, cream city brick is pretty ubiquitous in a lot of Southeast Wisconsin. Cream City is, actually, one of the nicknames for Milwaukee, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_City_brick

joemits · #**4551** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 4:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc

northern michigan u is kinda on lake superior, just the arena is closest really.

The Superior Dome and their soccer field is closest to the shore line.

Centropolis · #**4552** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton

Given the number of stone quarries across the Midwest, it's kind of surprising there's no one place where stone ended up dominating the built vernacular, such as it does in say Aberdeen, Scotland.

I know a major portion of this just comes down to a combination of rapid growth, and wood being plentiful/cheap. Though even in areas like the Great Plains where wood was relatively rare, it still dominated the built vernacular of the Midwest (except in the oldest, brickiest areas).

once the railroads were run, lumber was easily accessible via chicago or even the relatively nearby ozarks which were a source of tall, straight old growth pine lumber for the southern and central plains. the black hills in SD was heavily logged as well.

wikipedia.com

the above is missouri, not wisconsin.

Steely Dan · #**4553** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by creamcityleo79

I don't know if it dominated the built vernacular of the area; but, cream city brick is pretty ubiquitous in a lot of Southeast Wisconsin. Cream City is, actually, one of the nicknames for Milwaukee, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_City_brick

I believe eschaton was talking about residential vernacular, in which case Milwaukee's is overwhelmingly wood frame.

But I do love that cream city brick! It's kind of a mild bummer that it wasn't used more extensively for the city's housing stock. That would've been a pretty distinctive look.

Steely Dan · #**4554** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 6:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

once the railroads were run, lumber was easily accessible via chicago.

Yeah, you could even order entire kit houses right out of the sears catalogue, and from some gargantuan warehouse in Chicago, sears would box up all of the lumber, doors, windows, shingles, nails, plumbing fixtures, etc. needed to build a modest little frame home, along with a set of blueprints, and load it all up on a rail car and send it to your little town somewhere out on the prairie, where you, as a self-reliant and highly capable man of the earth, would gather available family and neighbors to help you put it all together.

mrnyc · #**4555** Posted **Jan 19, 2024, 7:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by creamcityleo79

I don't know if it dominated the built vernacular of the area; but, cream city brick is pretty ubiquitous in a lot of Southeast Wisconsin. Cream City is, actually, one of the nicknames for Milwaukee, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_City_brick

that reminds me of the yellowish staten island kriescher brick here in ny. i wish more of it had been used, but places like stockholm street where both the road and housing are using it are stunning and yeah it can really make for an iconic identity —

more:
https://forgotten-ny.com/2008/04/stockholm-syndrome-ridgewoods-landmarked-block/

MonkeyRonin · #**4556** Posted **Jan 20, 2024, 3:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Not many. Osgoode Hall is though, which is one of the most prominent buildings in the photos - it's been modified and multiple additions have occurred, but the two original wings remain visible:

...

You can also barely make out the St James Cathedral from before it had it's spire - it would have been more or less brand new in this photo:

...

Yup, I think that's about it as far as the buildings actually featured prominently in those 1856 photos. Other than that, there are a small handful of buildings from the 1850s or earlier left in the downtown core (ie. within the general areas shown above). I think this probably covers most of them - more info can be found in the links below each image:

Edit: I started putting this together before just googling it. Here's a much better list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_buildings_and_structures_in_Toronto

The city really boomed starting in the 1880s, so most of the old Georgian Toronto had been replaced by the first half of the 20th century.

ColDayMan · #**4557** Posted **Jan 20, 2024, 5:19 AM**

Oldest photo of Cleveland I could find is from 1857 of Public Square.

https://wikimedia.org/

benp · #**4558** Posted **Jan 20, 2024, 9:09 PM**

Great Lakes shipping is continuing extra late (again) this winter. The self-unloading Erie Trader (740 ft) being pushed by the attached Clyde S. VanEnkevort (135 ft) very very slowly through the ice inbound on the Buffalo River today.

Winter Buffalo 2023-24 by bpawlik, on Flickr

xzmattzx · #**4559** Posted **Jan 20, 2024, 11:56 PM**

^^ That looks like a cross between a laker ship and one of the river barges pushed by a pilot boat or tug boat. We have a decent amount of those tugs with the elevated control rooms on the Delaware River and Bay here.

Steely Dan · #**4560** Posted **Jan 21, 2024, 7:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

^^ That looks like a cross between a laker ship and one of the river barges pushed by a pilot boat or tug boat.

That's what many of them literally are.

Of course, there are also new-build integrated tug and barges on the lakes, but because of the lack of salt in the water, the steel hulls of old Lakers can FAR outlive those of ocean going ships, and some hulls stay in such good shape over the decades that when the engine systems start to go, it can often be more cost effective to simply slice the stern off of an old laker (where the engine are), and then rework the left over hull to be mated with and integrated pusher tug, than it is to overhaul the engines.